We don’t report on Metal much anymore, and for good reason. There are a billion and one sites devoted to Metal.
Including DarkTwinCities there are only about ten quality sites devoted to dark electronic. Okay, we’re not exactly “quality,” so I guess there are only nine. People who are into Metal are totally devoted to it while people who dig Industrial, EBM and Dark Electro are lazy, self-serving do-nothings who complain about the fact that there aren’t many good shows and not enough people are into the music they like but have never done a goddamn thing to remedy that situation. Too harsh? Perhaps. But certainly not way off base. Metal grew to an enormous degree thanks to all the word of mouth while dark electronic languishes on in obscurity and the few people who do listen to it merely sit around and talk about how it’s all dead.
Great strategy.
Years ago it felt interesting to be part of a “scene” where the participants seemed far more intelligent and thoughtful than in any other. But I’ve been rethinking that idea lately because the people into these styles of music don’t seem all that bright, honestly. I mean, many of the artists come across as thoughtful, open, honest, hard working and vigilant. They’re tireless in their efforts to create and promote. But the “fans” come across as the equivalent of a limp dick. And you’re not going to impress anyone by trying to shove a marshmallow into a piggy bank, y’knowhati’msayin’?
These styles survive almost solely due to the fact that there are some great artists out there putting out album after album of killer music that no one is buying or sharing with the general populace. And they are supported by little independent labels and imprints run by fervent admirers of the styles who give everything to what they do, often taking a loss in the process.
Those goofy religions out there have a thing called “tithing.” It has something to do with a concept regarding giving up a percentage of your money to the church or god or whatever. In turn god will reward you with…I dunno. Virgins or something? Whatever. I’ve never fully understood the whole “save wayward souls collect valuable prizes” ethic but I do recognize that giving of yourself will reap some kind of reward. And by helping out the artists and promoting their material you’re making it more likely they will continue to create their music. And by getting more people into it you’ll build a larger audience making live shows/tours more frequent.
Anyway, you should support these artists we’re always writing about. Start expanding your collection. Go to shows, buy some merch. But more importantly start spreading the word for fuck’s sake. You’ve all got fucking Livejournals and MySpaces and Facebooks and Twitters and what-fucking-not. TALK about these acts you admire. Quit keeping it to yourself like a selfish prick. If someone makes music that inspires you inspire someone else to check them out. Make mix tapes, er…CD thingies. Start your own blog or website devoted to discussing music and reviewing CDs. It can be a great hobby. Just ask the residents of CastleDTC.
Okay, don’t ask any of us. We’re all pretty cranky and always have way to much to do to answer any of your stupid questions.
Bottom line: there are Death Metal bands out there landing on the charts. Regularly. If a brutal style of music featuring blast beats, barking vocals and speed riffing can land on the charts you would expect that a club thumper with some harsh vocals would be able to score five figure sales lickety split, nooo shit. And there is so much of this music coming out – a lot of it quite good – that we here can’t even keep up with it all. And that’s our job. It’s what we’re here to do.
It’s not enough to just listen and keep your mouth shut. That’s exactly what’s killing these styles. Not some goofy ideals about the way things were as opposed to the way they are now. Not file-sharing. Not the economy. It’s you. You’re killing it. You’re just turning your head and ignoring its death throes when you could be administering the life-giving boost it so desperately needs right now.
Start proselytizing. Don’t keep it to yourself. We need advocates. We need voices.
And we at CastleDTC would love more competition.
July 22nd, 2009 at 9:59 am
Well said *applause*
July 24th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Yes, exactly! I’m so tired of people in the “scene” telling me they only listen to old music and that everything new is crap, when they haven’t listened to anything new past 2006! And I’m tired of DJs who only play the “classic club hits”, why do I have to dance and listen to the same music over and over again when I go out.
August 9th, 2009 at 11:08 am
What are the other 9 quality websites? I know some, but I don’t want to be missing any.
August 18th, 2009 at 10:02 am
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August 18th, 2009 at 10:16 am
[...] in electronic music http://darktwincities.com/dtcblog/2009/07/youre-killing-the-music/ « Remixing 101 with a [...]
August 18th, 2009 at 10:18 am
I agree that people don’t turn up for gigs and then wonder why no one come to town any more. I try to do as many live shows as my budget allows. I try to buy some merch (last night 3 ended up walking away with 3 really good CDs). I try to support the local shows but also appreciate that the local promoters are not bottomless pits of cash and often make a loss as people, for example. from Newcastle won’t go just up the road to Sunderland.
Infest getting cancelled won’t help the scene but I have noticed a number of smaller events around the country in a couple of weeks time. I will be at one too.
I also note the DJ who still plays Temple of love and Head like a Hole ad nauseum as it will fill the floor – it cannot help the scene.
August 18th, 2009 at 11:30 am
Agreed 100 percent.
As a dark electronic/experimental musician, I can say with certainty word of mouth if the best promotion, and artists enjoy when people enjoy what we do. No more elitism, burn down cities and slap band stickers on anything remaining.
August 18th, 2009 at 11:52 am
I was working ona post just like this now I can just put up a link
August 18th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Oh, some of us do this. Some of us also play new and old stuff when DJing both clubs and radio. And post more blogs, and link to as many bands as possible.
…to be met with a shrug, and the request of “got any Combichrist?”.
I’ll link back to this tomorrow on my blog, and it might just remind me to get my website back online asap.
August 18th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
Very well said!
August 18th, 2009 at 12:29 pm
This is entirely spot on, and entirely why I’m really glad to have a diverse fan base; many of whom are not sold out to industrial scene bitchery. The people who are not 100% industrial sycophants , will actually pay money for cd’s and merch, will go and dance at live shows, and bring the music they love to their friends.
August 18th, 2009 at 12:42 pm
‘I was working ona post just like this now I can just put up a link”
sure u were will, ‘cept peeps will actually read this one
i love the “Quit keeping it to yourself like a selfish prick.”
August 18th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
nice post…i am a dj who once in a while plays the hit because it does get the dance floor moving once in a while and you gotta prove to the clubs whod mostly rather have a hip hop or techno thingy or live rock music…and still there the bands that that bring out people (vnv combi etc) due to the hot topicing of the underground that wont show up to the clubs or see the locals…this dilemma has been the bane of ALL underground scenes and still is a stain after all these years…would i like to see more appreciation for what we do? does a pigeon ruin your nice new paint job? i get so tired of the goth/industrial genres being placed at the kids table so to speak mostly due to ignorance from the general public…why is that? well in all truth we do set ourselves to be satirized rather well (goth talk anyone?) and in trying to define ourselves we tend to stumble on it as well…its like that dage about art, i know it when i see it…in phoenix i would love to see as many people at a strand or hardwire show as a vnv or cruxshadows…but its that big band syndrome, somehow these acts are able to “break through” to such a degree that they can fill up the marquee theatre here (1500 ppl capacity) but those people arent inclined to care enough to see whats going on around town for various reasons…so we continue to talk and pass out flyers and and and and…now conversely; i am an old guy who began his underground life in the punk scene in des moines 80’s..i have this thing about some things getting too big…look at punk, what was once a rebellion against the over bloated progressive rock bands then in the 80’s rebellion against the ills of the world has become an over bloated scene in itself, heart removed, and i blame hot topic!…partly…(im using a blanket definition here.is still a vibrant and enthralling underground punk scene completely committed to the diy ethic and wanting to make a difference)…punk became a commodity easily digestable and sellable to the “disaffected” suburban youth needing to a sense of belonging…until they find real jobs…so as i would hate to see goth/industrial fall into the hands of warner, emi, hot topic etc the question is how big becomes too big? as far as the mainstream is concerned NIN is pretty fucking industrial and MM is real gothy…let that sink in for a minute…ok…persoanlly i would love to see some acceptance where at least we can play in music fests…for example every year the new times free weekly has a music fest…they have not had a goth/industrial stage since 1999 or 2000…why? theyre not oblivious to us…its just the image is a bunch of high school kids who like to be weird and freaky and anti social, dont worry theyll grow out of it…and whos to blame for that image? mostly the weird and freaky anti social adults…maybe..but anothe rproblem is that here in phoenix all clubs are 21 plus, not good for getting new blood (pardon the expression) into our beloved scene…that right at the start needs to change…and you old farts who go around screaming “you kids get off my dance floor” i know who you are…you were young trying to get into the club after hours so you could dance for an hour to xtian death…so where do we stand? how biog do we want to be? after all we do have our own conferences that do well and CRUISES for crissakes…so do we need the acceptance of the musical world and by how much before we lose our soul? stephen king has been for all his career wanting to be a part of the literary circle clique but since he writes horror, well, you go play over there they say…he got over it…will we?
August 18th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Great post! I have actually noticed that some industrial music fans sometimes like to keep the music to themselves, and their close friends. As if it’s a secret that needs protecting. And that protective-ness extends to DJs sometimes too.. I’ve even gotten in a couple rather heated debates with DJs who claim it was them that played (insert random song) first and then say another DJ stole the song from them to use in their playlist. Since when did music become their possession? Now, I understand the whole other side of the coin for DJs, but honestly, I don’t think it’s fair to the artist. Music is to be shared, exposed, ripped apart, or revered, love it, hate it, but let em all try it. It’s out there for a reason, an artist releases music to see what happens when it hits people.
And thank you Thom for pointing out Arizona’s biggest scene-related problem. NO all ages clubs. Everything is 21+. I mean, usually you get hooked on a new kind of music in your teenage years.
Anyhow, I really dig the topic, and appreciate all of the support our band has been lucky enough to get over the past ten years. (The Strand) We’ve been fortunate in that our fans are actually QUITE VOCAL about us and spread the word well. Word of mouth is the best possible way to get your music heard, and people in the door… so yeah, if you like industrial music, make a mix cd for a friend, or pull em out to see a gig or two. (Cough.. SMP, SV, Strand, Hardwire Sept 2, Chasers in Scottsdale AZ. Cough…)
Hah. What do you expect, I’m always promoting.. we dont’ have a fancy label.
August 18th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
Here’s the harsh truth: things will NEVER be the same. The era IS over. The only way for the industrial scene to survive is for it to reinvent itself. Can we call it industrial after that? Who knows? The minute we cease to change and adapt we grow old and obsolete. We lock ourselves into an era that moves farther and farther into the past.
Industrial music is a testament to this. Nearly 35 years of history and it went strong through most of it because it constantly evolved. It’s a long way from the days of Industrial Records. Even going to see some of the original players in Psychic TV today is nothing like seeing Throbbing Gristle in the 70s. (I imagine at least. I was busy at the time… being conceived.) It’s changed so much that the sub-genres can hardly be placed together in the larger “industrial” genre. And its influence has stretched over every genre of electronic.
I remember in the late 90s when we scoffed at new “industrial music” with guitars. But the hard guitar riffs beat our elitist asses into submission. Purists ALWAYS lose in the end. I learned this the hard way, in the scene and in life. Shit, I wrote a thesis on this shit. I should probably try to avoid writing another one right now.
Anyway, I digress. While the music is at the core of the scene, it can survive without the scene as we know it. So while the scene dies, the music goes on. I would venture to guess that most people in this conversation are in their late 20s or early to mid 30s. We no longer decide the ebb and flow of underground music or fashion. The days of camo pants, combat boots and yarn heads are passing. But for those of us that are really into it, it’s the music that we’re into, not the clothes. This is why I despise dress codes. When did it become more about fashion than music? Leave that shit to the fetish clubs. Why the fuck should we give a shit what some 60-year-old perv in his fucking tighty whiteys thinks of our music anyway?
Again, I digress. We need to market to a younger generation, one that hasn’t become set in their musical tastes. And we can’t do that as a member’s only club anymore. If it is going to survive, they are the one’s that will carry the torch. (It’s ironic to talk about marketing and profits on a music genre laden with socialist themes, I know. But that’s a discussion for another day.) This means all ages shows. Yep, the one’s we all hated going to after we turned 21. People stop coming out as they get older. They get jobs, families, responsibilities… whatever. It just happens. When they stop doing that, they stop listening to new stuff. Their ranks need to be replenished with a new generation.
The one thing I’ve always loved about underground music is that you can’t get into making it because you think it’s going to make you rich or a rock star. You have to do it because you love it, which truly makes it art. It would be nice, though, to see a renaissance where the artists and promoters could be rewarded for their efforts and cease to take losses. If anyone came up with a good idea on how to go about this, I’d be the first to jump on board. But for now, all I have is theory.
August 18th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
heh. Good topic. One thing I would add though is that Metal was always about music. Goth/Industrial is often about fashion. That accounts for some of the differences you point out in your blog post.
There are so many people I see out at club nights who are just there to wear a look and couldn’t care less what music is actually playing. You generally don’t find that with Metal.
August 18th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
Word!
To piggy back on what Dave Strand said, it IS about exposure. When I flyer and promote I hit anyone and everyone! You never know, that kid in blue jeans and an Element shirt may be a huge electronic fan. Lethargy is a huge problem, here in Arizona. When there aren’t all ages shows, people bitch. When there are, they refuse to attend. I have seen this first hard over the last year. And it’s getting worse. Even with the economy the way it is, I am sure people can spend the 5 cents it costs to burn local music and pass it around to promote the bands they love so much.
August 18th, 2009 at 10:15 pm
oh and I am going to be spreading this eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeverywhere!
=)
August 19th, 2009 at 6:39 am
Very well said… agree with it 100%
But sadly it will be falling upon many deaf ears.
It’s going to take a lot more than intelligent, logical, intellectual blog posts to pry “teh scenes” head out of it’s own prolapsed asshole at this point.
The ideals of the industrial pioneer days are nearly extinct. Many bands, such as ourselves, are trying our hardest to revive them. But it’s nearly impossible for this to happen when most of the bands are just as guilty with their selfishness these days. No one wants to work together. No one wants help each other. Its like a pack of starving dogs all mauling each other for the last bit of chow sitting in the bowl.
It’s the bands that set the examples… and when you look at the majority of the bands out there in the scene today, with their narcissism, bloated egos, selfishness and negativity, it’s no wonder why things are the way they are.
The signal to noise ratio is completely unbalanced, oversaturated with shit. It is a complete turn off for listeners and artists alike who do still hold on to the old ideals and mindset and actually give a fuck… but we are stuck in a drowning pool.
We all just have to stay focused on what we are passionate about and forge a new path through this shit and let go of the current “scene”. Create new networks… connections… a subculture within a subculture. We have to wash it all away from our minds and start fresh, as there is no repairing the current state of things. Some things are meant to stay broken…
It’s not about packing clubs. It’s not about fashion. It’s not about ego. It’s not about popularity. All of which are the current plagues we must become immune from.
August 19th, 2009 at 10:57 am
I know people will not like this BUT…
I don’t think it’s well said at all… This guy is full of shit….
“there are only about ten quality sites devoted to dark electronic.”
BULLSHIT. i have seen well over 30 sites dedicated to this music, some of them are not popular because our music is not popular but they are still of decent quality.
.
.
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“people who dig Industrial, EBM and Dark Electro are lazy, self-serving do-nothings who complain about the fact that there aren’t many good shows and not enough people are into the music they like but have never done a goddamn thing to remedy that situation.”
Again, BULLSHIT. over half of us contribute to this scene. Think about how many bands per-capita there are who contribute music to this scene, how many DJs there are, how many reviewers there are, labels & webzines. For such a small scene, we have a huge percentage of contributors, we’re not all a bunch of self-serving lazy do-nothing like this guy says.
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.
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“Years ago it felt interesting to be part of a “scene” where the participants seemed far more intelligent and thoughtful than in any other. But I’ve been rethinking that idea lately because the people into these styles of music don’t seem all that bright, honestly.”
There has always been smart people and stupid people in the scene. That has not changed. He loves comparing us to metal so damn much, then maybe another reason that scene does so well is because they are typically simple people, often teenagers & usually not well educated. where as many of the people in our scene are well educated, stuck up, cynical elitists that pick on bands like NIN & anybody that listened to that. I have seen first hand on a few occasions where some new kid hears Marilyn Manson so he tries to learn more about industrial music just to be mocked & made fun of because he enjoyed Manson, then the kid pretty much says fuck you and never returns.. another person lost thanks to the intelligent elitists.
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.
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“many of the artists come across as thoughtful, open, honest, hard working and vigilant. They’re tireless in their efforts to create and promote. But the “fans” come across as the equivalent of a limp dick.”
Once again, i see countless dozens of net radio stations, and radio/club djs & webzines & reviewers, clubs & labels who are fans of this music that work hard to promote it.
.
.
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“killer music that no one is buying or sharing with the general populace” this is true for the most part, but the general populace does not give a shit for reasons i list in my final summary below.
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.
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“Make mix tapes, er…CD thingies”
…YEA! that’s real legal….
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“Not file-sharing. Not the economy. It’s you. You’re killing it.”
WOW! This guy has obviously not been affected by the economy like SOO MANY of us have been nor does he give a flying fuck about legality issues… =| I don’t think he should blame us all for the failure of dark electronic music as a popular form of music when so many of us contribute immensely to our scene.
And finally He needs to stop comparing Industrial to metal, they are two completely different things with completely different fans. Metal has had the luxury of having BIG NAMES promote it… We however have not. Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson & Ministry were probably the most successful industrial bands ever & even they all were partially metal also. Our scene wouldn’t even be half as big as it is if it wasn’t for those few “gateway” bands that made some people dig deeper into what we offer. The common public does not give a flying fuck about being different or trying something new, they are cattle that follow trends. Most common people cannot relate to songs about Robots from WW2 anyhow. They want to hear music about sex & drugs. They want music about love and happiness or music about ripping rotten guts out of dead horses then masturbating in them (if they are rebellious teenagers).. things that make them feel good, things that they can relate to in a real-world way or even just things to piss off their parents. Industrial music does not give this to them. Our music is an alternative to the mainstream, it always has been, it always will be.
His heart is in the right place, i just don’t think he’s right about a lot of what he said.
August 22nd, 2009 at 4:00 pm
!. i blame goth/industrial club dj’s (and owners) for flooding the market with rob zombie and combichrist and and simply not being original. how is an up and coming artist going to compete with perfect cd sound and mastering and typical radio friendly beats?
@. i blame other dark electronic artists. 1 for being so genre specific. i have had the door shut in my face at least 2ice because i was a solo artist. although im under the assumption my composition skills and dark creepy music factor scared off those that were trying to be the headliner.
#.MONEY!! theres NO MONEY so all these bitch ass musicians are desperately trying to get seen and laid and fill their egos. i didnt realize we were going back the 80’s hair metal days adn modern hip hop days for inspiration to get on stage.
$. i dont dres in black so i dont look the same and the gothy dweebs seem bothered by it. like there was a sign that says specifically “you must have black shirt and tie and pants and boots to enter, if you dont have these things a patron will assign you with a black mesh top and gauged earings and a pair of black commandos and you may enter”. im sorry i dint realize this was a club!
%. dj’s again. modern dark electronic dance at times is a house beat with darker sounds or just some other typical pop beat. simple and unoriginal and boring but the stretch from industrial/goth to dark electronic seems to only bend that far. try some aphex twin you cunts
August 22nd, 2009 at 4:02 pm
i am phreak 7 and ASH X on myspace
November 12th, 2009 at 8:00 am
[...] what prompted this rant? Back when I made a post entitled You’re Killing The Music I got a large number of responses in favor of what I had to say. There was one respondent, however, [...]