@. i blame other dark electronic artists. 1 for being so genre specific. i have had the door shut in my face at least 2ice because i was a solo artist. although im under the assumption my composition skills and dark creepy music factor scared off those that were trying to be the headliner.

#.MONEY!! theres NO MONEY so all these bitch ass musicians are desperately trying to get seen and laid and fill their egos. i didnt realize we were going back the 80’s hair metal days adn modern hip hop days for inspiration to get on stage.

$. i dont dres in black so i dont look the same and the gothy dweebs seem bothered by it. like there was a sign that says specifically “you must have black shirt and tie and pants and boots to enter, if you dont have these things a patron will assign you with a black mesh top and gauged earings and a pair of black commandos and you may enter”. im sorry i dint realize this was a club!

%. dj’s again. modern dark electronic dance at times is a house beat with darker sounds or just some other typical pop beat. simple and unoriginal and boring but the stretch from industrial/goth to dark electronic seems to only bend that far. try some aphex twin you cunts

I don’t think it’s well said at all… This guy is full of shit….

“there are only about ten quality sites devoted to dark electronic.”

BULLSHIT. i have seen well over 30 sites dedicated to this music, some of them are not popular because our music is not popular but they are still of decent quality.
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“people who dig Industrial, EBM and Dark Electro are lazy, self-serving do-nothings who complain about the fact that there aren’t many good shows and not enough people are into the music they like but have never done a goddamn thing to remedy that situation.”

Again, BULLSHIT. over half of us contribute to this scene. Think about how many bands per-capita there are who contribute music to this scene, how many DJs there are, how many reviewers there are, labels & webzines. For such a small scene, we have a huge percentage of contributors, we’re not all a bunch of self-serving lazy do-nothing like this guy says.
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“Years ago it felt interesting to be part of a “scene” where the participants seemed far more intelligent and thoughtful than in any other. But I’ve been rethinking that idea lately because the people into these styles of music don’t seem all that bright, honestly.”

There has always been smart people and stupid people in the scene. That has not changed. He loves comparing us to metal so damn much, then maybe another reason that scene does so well is because they are typically simple people, often teenagers & usually not well educated. where as many of the people in our scene are well educated, stuck up, cynical elitists that pick on bands like NIN & anybody that listened to that. I have seen first hand on a few occasions where some new kid hears Marilyn Manson so he tries to learn more about industrial music just to be mocked & made fun of because he enjoyed Manson, then the kid pretty much says fuck you and never returns.. another person lost thanks to the intelligent elitists.
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“many of the artists come across as thoughtful, open, honest, hard working and vigilant. They’re tireless in their efforts to create and promote. But the “fans” come across as the equivalent of a limp dick.”

Once again, i see countless dozens of net radio stations, and radio/club djs & webzines & reviewers, clubs & labels who are fans of this music that work hard to promote it.
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“killer music that no one is buying or sharing with the general populace” this is true for the most part, but the general populace does not give a shit for reasons i list in my final summary below.
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“Make mix tapes, er…CD thingies”
…YEA! that’s real legal….
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“Not file-sharing. Not the economy. It’s you. You’re killing it.”

WOW! This guy has obviously not been affected by the economy like SOO MANY of us have been nor does he give a flying fuck about legality issues… =| I don’t think he should blame us all for the failure of dark electronic music as a popular form of music when so many of us contribute immensely to our scene.

And finally He needs to stop comparing Industrial to metal, they are two completely different things with completely different fans. Metal has had the luxury of having BIG NAMES promote it… We however have not. Nine Inch Nails, Marilyn Manson & Ministry were probably the most successful industrial bands ever & even they all were partially metal also. Our scene wouldn’t even be half as big as it is if it wasn’t for those few “gateway” bands that made some people dig deeper into what we offer. The common public does not give a flying fuck about being different or trying something new, they are cattle that follow trends. Most common people cannot relate to songs about Robots from WW2 anyhow. They want to hear music about sex & drugs. They want music about love and happiness or music about ripping rotten guts out of dead horses then masturbating in them (if they are rebellious teenagers).. things that make them feel good, things that they can relate to in a real-world way or even just things to piss off their parents. Industrial music does not give this to them. Our music is an alternative to the mainstream, it always has been, it always will be.

His heart is in the right place, i just don’t think he’s right about a lot of what he said.

But sadly it will be falling upon many deaf ears.

It’s going to take a lot more than intelligent, logical, intellectual blog posts to pry “teh scenes” head out of it’s own prolapsed asshole at this point.

The ideals of the industrial pioneer days are nearly extinct. Many bands, such as ourselves, are trying our hardest to revive them. But it’s nearly impossible for this to happen when most of the bands are just as guilty with their selfishness these days. No one wants to work together. No one wants help each other. Its like a pack of starving dogs all mauling each other for the last bit of chow sitting in the bowl.

It’s the bands that set the examples… and when you look at the majority of the bands out there in the scene today, with their narcissism, bloated egos, selfishness and negativity, it’s no wonder why things are the way they are.

The signal to noise ratio is completely unbalanced, oversaturated with shit. It is a complete turn off for listeners and artists alike who do still hold on to the old ideals and mindset and actually give a fuck… but we are stuck in a drowning pool.

We all just have to stay focused on what we are passionate about and forge a new path through this shit and let go of the current “scene”. Create new networks… connections… a subculture within a subculture. We have to wash it all away from our minds and start fresh, as there is no repairing the current state of things. Some things are meant to stay broken…

It’s not about packing clubs. It’s not about fashion. It’s not about ego. It’s not about popularity. All of which are the current plagues we must become immune from.

=)

To piggy back on what Dave Strand said, it IS about exposure. When I flyer and promote I hit anyone and everyone! You never know, that kid in blue jeans and an Element shirt may be a huge electronic fan. Lethargy is a huge problem, here in Arizona. When there aren’t all ages shows, people bitch. When there are, they refuse to attend. I have seen this first hard over the last year. And it’s getting worse. Even with the economy the way it is, I am sure people can spend the 5 cents it costs to burn local music and pass it around to promote the bands they love so much.

There are so many people I see out at club nights who are just there to wear a look and couldn’t care less what music is actually playing. You generally don’t find that with Metal.

Industrial music is a testament to this. Nearly 35 years of history and it went strong through most of it because it constantly evolved. It’s a long way from the days of Industrial Records. Even going to see some of the original players in Psychic TV today is nothing like seeing Throbbing Gristle in the 70s. (I imagine at least. I was busy at the time… being conceived.) It’s changed so much that the sub-genres can hardly be placed together in the larger “industrial” genre. And its influence has stretched over every genre of electronic.

I remember in the late 90s when we scoffed at new “industrial music” with guitars. But the hard guitar riffs beat our elitist asses into submission. Purists ALWAYS lose in the end. I learned this the hard way, in the scene and in life. Shit, I wrote a thesis on this shit. I should probably try to avoid writing another one right now.

Anyway, I digress. While the music is at the core of the scene, it can survive without the scene as we know it. So while the scene dies, the music goes on. I would venture to guess that most people in this conversation are in their late 20s or early to mid 30s. We no longer decide the ebb and flow of underground music or fashion. The days of camo pants, combat boots and yarn heads are passing. But for those of us that are really into it, it’s the music that we’re into, not the clothes. This is why I despise dress codes. When did it become more about fashion than music? Leave that shit to the fetish clubs. Why the fuck should we give a shit what some 60-year-old perv in his fucking tighty whiteys thinks of our music anyway?

Again, I digress. We need to market to a younger generation, one that hasn’t become set in their musical tastes. And we can’t do that as a member’s only club anymore. If it is going to survive, they are the one’s that will carry the torch. (It’s ironic to talk about marketing and profits on a music genre laden with socialist themes, I know. But that’s a discussion for another day.) This means all ages shows. Yep, the one’s we all hated going to after we turned 21. People stop coming out as they get older. They get jobs, families, responsibilities… whatever. It just happens. When they stop doing that, they stop listening to new stuff. Their ranks need to be replenished with a new generation.

The one thing I’ve always loved about underground music is that you can’t get into making it because you think it’s going to make you rich or a rock star. You have to do it because you love it, which truly makes it art. It would be nice, though, to see a renaissance where the artists and promoters could be rewarded for their efforts and cease to take losses. If anyone came up with a good idea on how to go about this, I’d be the first to jump on board. But for now, all I have is theory.

And thank you Thom for pointing out Arizona’s biggest scene-related problem. NO all ages clubs. Everything is 21+. I mean, usually you get hooked on a new kind of music in your teenage years.

Anyhow, I really dig the topic, and appreciate all of the support our band has been lucky enough to get over the past ten years. (The Strand) We’ve been fortunate in that our fans are actually QUITE VOCAL about us and spread the word well. Word of mouth is the best possible way to get your music heard, and people in the door… so yeah, if you like industrial music, make a mix cd for a friend, or pull em out to see a gig or two. (Cough.. SMP, SV, Strand, Hardwire Sept 2, Chasers in Scottsdale AZ. Cough…)

Hah. What do you expect, I’m always promoting.. we dont’ have a fancy label.