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 Satanists: Why? 
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Post Satanists: Why?
Since there have been two self-proclaimed satanists here as of late, why don't you tell us why you believe this stuff?

Most of the "satanists" (LeVay type or otherwise) that I have known seem to mostly do it simply to spite Christians/their parents or to be able to say "I'm a satanist".

I see absolutely no connection between Goth Music and Devil Worship myself.


Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:06 pm
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Don't dis the satanists, zom-zom. They might put a hex on you!


Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:30 pm
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Isn't Satanism gathering dust since the PMRC fell apart?

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Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:37 pm
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+jamison+ wrote:
Don't dis the satanists, zom-zom. They might put a hex on you!


No, that's the Wiccans.

I'm just asking is all. I've heard the varied reasons about Christianity and all of the more "popular" beliefs.


Thu Jun 17, 2004 5:51 pm
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I'm not sure I understand Satanists either . Satanism has always seemed rather reactionary to Christanity. I can't really see one without the other. I propose a merger. Satanochristianity, Christiosatanity. One big happy family.


Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:00 pm
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Satanism is self-worship. Pure and simple. Naming itself after the character of "Satan" is merely meant to tweak the collective nipples of the Christians.

This is fact.


Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:08 am
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Satanism is just an offshoot of Christianity, which as far as I'm concerned, makes them essentially Christian. Just saying you believe the opposite of whatever doesn't actually divorce you from it.


Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:23 am
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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
zom-zom wrote:
Most of the "satanists" (LeVay type or otherwise) that I have known seem to mostly do it simply to spite Christians/their parents or to be able to say "I'm a satanist". .


Unfortunately that is the case with most satanists. Like so many who get involved in satanism and/or paganism, the fact that it might shock people seems to be one of the attractive aspects. When you throw it in people's faces all the time (like feeling the need to have a pentagram/inverted pentagram t-shirt), it really becomes just about reactions.
What I got from reading the Satanic Bible and interviews with LaVey was the idea of mastering your own destiny, not letting others control you, and enjoying life. Anton himself said that there was no God or Devil, but as the ideas of carnality and misanthropy are "evil," they can be referred to as "satanic." He also hated heavy metal, and thought that "We Have no Bananas Today" was the most satanic song ever(and no, I am not making that up).
So, anyone following too close to whatever LavEy ever spouted was violating the ideas that he espoused. He told people to be wolves, and not sheep. Maybe that's why he and Boyd Rice got along so well.
Anyway, that's my take on it. I don't even consdier myself a satanist, I just thought LaVrey was an entertaining con man, who had a good chuckle at both christians and so many of his followers.


Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
Haakon wrote:
Like so many who get involved in satanism and/or paganism, the fact that it might shock people seems to be one of the attractive aspects. When you throw it in people's faces all the time (like feeling the need to have a pentagram/inverted pentagram t-shirt), it really becomes just about reactions.


PLEASE don't lump Pagans and Satanists together. Paganism is a completely separate belief system. Satanism is a branch of Christianity, whereas Pagans don't even believe in "the devil". And our wearing of the pentagram is like Christians wearing a cross. While there are 15 year-old spooky kids just doing it for the attention, for most of us it's a means to identify others of one's religion, as well as a comforting physical connection to/symbol of one's beliefs. The pentagram represents the five elements of life (earth, air, fire, water, spirit) and the Satanist's bastardization of that symbol only further proves their affinity with Christianity.


Mon Jun 21, 2004 1:45 pm
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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
Haakon wrote:
What I got from reading the Satanic Bible and interviews with LaVey was the idea of mastering your own destiny, not letting others control you, and enjoying life.


Sounds like Tony Robbins, not Satan.


Last edited by +jamison+ on Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:05 pm
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Yeah, but the Devil shite sounds more scary and you get to wear hoods and stuff.


Mon Jun 21, 2004 5:07 pm
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zom-zom wrote:
Yeah, but the Devil shite sounds more scary and you get to wear hoods and stuff.


Some of us wear hoods anyway, so phhbbt on them!

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Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:25 am
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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
sparklegoth wrote:
Haakon wrote:
Like so many who get involved in satanism and/or paganism, the fact that it might shock people seems to be one of the attractive aspects. When you throw it in people's faces all the time (like feeling the need to have a pentagram/inverted pentagram t-shirt), it really becomes just about reactions.


PLEASE don't lump Pagans and Satanists together. Paganism is a completely separate belief system. Satanism is a branch of Christianity, whereas Pagans don't even believe in "the devil". And our wearing of the pentagram is like Christians wearing a cross. While there are 15 year-old spooky kids just doing it for the attention, for most of us it's a means to identify others of one's religion, as well as a comforting physical connection to/symbol of one's beliefs. The pentagram represents the five elements of life (earth, air, fire, water, spirit) and the Satanist's bastardization of that symbol only further proves their affinity with Christianity.


Along these same lines, we shouldn't lump Pagans and Wiccans together. Although all Wiccans are technically Pagan, not all Pagans are Wiccan. Most Wiccans have the same problem as the Satanists, having gotten a bad rep from all the hip new-agey shinola that many young adults follow. 90% of what people believe and then preach is reactionary bullshit to be "cool" or to piss off society, which is not what most Wiccans are about. I know many really stable, intelligent Wiccans who run from the word "Wicca" for that very reason.

Pagan, as far as I understand the term (and I know one of you will correct me here if I'm off), is the catch word for all religions that are not the "Big Three" (Christianity, Judaism, Islam). To be fair, it is also used as a badge or something (" Look at me...I'm Pagan"), but it helps some us explain some of our views to people on common terms. Let it be said, I am Pagan. My religious views are very personal and unique to me alone, but public to those who ask, and are a mix of Christian, Jewish, Satanic, Wiccan, Tribal and Humanitarian views. I am very spiritual but obviously I cannot be religious, since my views aren't doctrinized. Personally (and I know someone will jump on this too) I believe that all religions, from the most prominent to the most crack-pot, have much in common. People just choose to put labels on it, and criticize others for differences.

How can one be right, when another is not wrong? ;)

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Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:44 am
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From what little research I've done, you guys have pretty much said it already: Satanism isn't really the worship of Satan, but rather a retort to the "confines" of Christianity. Since Christianity seems to come with so many "rules", Satanism is really just freedom from those rules, and has nothing to do with spirituality at all. I've never met anybody who truly worships spiritual being of Lucifer/Beelzebub/Satan.


Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:29 am
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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
sparklegoth wrote:
Haakon wrote:
Like so many who get involved in satanism and/or paganism, the fact that it might shock people seems to be one of the attractive aspects. When you throw it in people's faces all the time (like feeling the need to have a pentagram/inverted pentagram t-shirt), it really becomes just about reactions.


PLEASE don't lump Pagans and Satanists together. Paganism is a completely separate belief system. Satanism is a branch of Christianity, whereas Pagans don't even believe in "the devil". And our wearing of the pentagram is like Christians wearing a cross. While there are 15 year-old spooky kids just doing it for the attention, for most of us it's a means to identify others of one's religion, as well as a comforting physical connection to/symbol of one's beliefs. The pentagram represents the five elements of life (earth, air, fire, water, spirit) and the Satanist's bastardization of that symbol only further proves their affinity with Christianity.


I don't meant to belabor the issue, but here are a few points.
1. "Paganism" being a catch-all term, it is several belief systems.
2. Satanism, if it has anything to do with christianity, is the polar opposite, as it doesn't branch from, but against, christianity.
3. My point was about how people like to take things like the pentagram, both right-side-up and inverted, and use it as way to get noticed in an amazingly immature, "look at me" way. I have known both satanists and pagans to do this.
4. The satanic relation to the pentagram goes back to people like Eliphas Levi, who believed that the pentagram could represent both good and bad magic, and represented this with the image of the "Baphomet," with the pentagram on its forehead. This was hermetic occultism, and not satanist bastardization.


Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:41 am
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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
nightraven wrote:
Most Wiccans have the same problem as the Satanists, having gotten a bad rep from all the hip new-agey shinola that many young adults follow.

The problem is, "Wicca" is new agey, by definition. It is a 20th century creation, which has almost no basis in historical, pagan beliefs. It grabbed old imagery, threw in some massive (and many times innaccurate) generalizations about the way the ancestors worshipped, and marketed itself to people who wanted the structure of religion (by giving it a name), but not all the nasty side effects.
The ancestors, who ever they may be, were typically brutal, ignorant people, who loved and feared a variety of gods, goddesses, spirits, ancestors, etc., all based in the limited world of their understanding. They didn't all just worship some white-clad female deity who gives them tips on their love life if you burn the right candle while offering salt and bread.
My main problem with wicca is that it purports to be free of the biases of "The Church", but then it goes right ahead and creates its own dogma, all while saying what a "free and personal" belief system it is.
Two good movie examples:
Wicca="The Craft." Awful movie, but demonstrates just how generic and not-based-in- history this new age drivel can be.
European paganism="The Wicker Man" Good movie, where people follow a belief system localized to their specific village, and do both good and bad things to pay repsect to the gods.


Tue Jun 22, 2004 11:59 am
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As I've heard it, from a self proclaimed Satanist, Satanism is a sort of Animism. As in, they are all gods, and they worship themselves as such.

There are Devil Worshipers, however, they are not Satanists.

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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
nightraven wrote:
I believe that all religions, from the most prominent to the most crack-pot, have much in common. People just choose to put labels on it, and criticize others for differences. How can one be right, when another is not wrong? ;)


I tend to follow this line of thought as well.. I havea feeling that labels make it easier for folks to relate to things, but in reality, they're all little post-it notes attached so we can grasp a little of what's out there... :) I don't claim to be blessed with the knowledge of 'how things really work' however I have an idea that the truth (if there is just one truth) is a collection of all of them and more... and none :) So my feeling is, go with what feels right and comfortable to you, do your best to be the best *insert label here* you can be, and try and make the world a better place... somehow :) At least you're doing SOMETHING :)

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Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:43 am
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I was mostly interested in what possessed (pun intended) these self-proclaimed "satanists" to decide on their belief.

Why is it that none of them have stepped forward to offer an explanation? I'm merely curious.


Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:59 am
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I dunno, Carpathian. I think most religions are distinctly different with different influences and motivations. Each deeply rooted and influenced by the culture from which it originates. Sure, there are common themes, but the rules on how to play the game are very different.

It doesn't matter wheather there's a heaven and a hell, it's how you get there.

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Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:47 am
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Silly side note:

On the way to my office, I saw a sign in front of the church next door. It read...

"Possessed by Demons... Visitors Welcome"

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Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:12 am
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Absolutely Nem, I was speaking more on the labels of what "God/Goddess/energy/The point of it all/whatever" is... the rules are definately different (with some similarities) however. I guess my point was (to me) it doesn't really matter HOW you do wha you do... or don't do... it matters more THAT you're doing something... even if it's just extending kindness or help when and where you can :)

Nemphusi wrote:
I dunno, Carpathian. I think most religions are distinctly different with different influences and motivations. Each deeply rooted and influenced by the culture from which it originates. Sure, there are common themes, but the rules on how to play the game are very different.

It doesn't matter wheather there's a heaven and a hell, it's how you get there.

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Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:51 am
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zom-zom wrote:
I was mostly interested in what possessed (pun intended) these self-proclaimed "satanists" to decide on their belief.

Why is it that none of them have stepped forward to offer an explanation? I'm merely curious.


Me too. I wanna hear it from the horse's mouth.


Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:03 pm
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Man Ray wrote:
Satanism is just an offshoot of Christianity, which as far as I'm concerned, makes them essentially Christian. Just saying you believe the opposite of whatever doesn't actually divorce you from it.


That's actually incorrect.

It's not about worshipping Satan, because Satanists do not actually believe in the existance of Satan (or God, by Christian definition). The concept of Satan is used to illustrate a point. Satan supposedly went to hell because he was banished there for defying God and putting himself equal to Him. Satanists believe they ARE in fact spiritual equals, and there is no God or deity that is above humans. In the spiritual realm, all things are equal without exception.

Nobody who actually believed in the Christian concept of Satan would actually choose to worship him (if they were sane). Who would worship a demon who will only torture you and inflict unearthly pain on you for all of eternity?

The idea of Satan is as silly as the idea of a God. People just need the idea of Satan so they can explain away this God nonsense. It also makes a convenient tool for manipulating people by teaching them that certain choices will result in reward in heaven, and other choices will result in eternal suffering in hell.

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Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:52 pm
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Ether wrote:
Satan supposedly went to hell because he was banished there for defying God and putting himself equal to Him.


Satan's in hell? Where did you read this?

Ether wrote:
Nobody who actually believed in the Christian concept of Satan would actually choose to worship him (if they were sane). Who would worship a demon who will only torture you and inflict unearthly pain on you for all of eternity?


Where does it say that Satan is going to torture and inflict unearthly pain on his worshipers? I can't seem to find anything about that.


Last edited by +jamison+ on Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:35 pm
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Well, youre right. But you're just splitting hairs, here, man.

What will happen according to the books is that he and his worshippers shall share the same torment in the lake of fire. However the logic of, why would anyone want to follow someone who would purposely lead them into a lake of fire still stands.

As for Lucifer not being a demon, that depends on what you believe a demon to be. Lesser-devil? Fallen angel? I would be curious to know your views on the matter.

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Nemphusi wrote:
I would be curious to know your views on the matter.


My views on flesh-munching demons and flaming lakes? I think it's all bullshit. People would be better off if they concerned themselves more with how they act now, today, while their still alive and can make a differance, than with what might happen when their dead.


Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:04 pm
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How much pain from say, a burning lake, can one stand through eternity? Would you reach a point where it just didn't matter anymore? Or stabs from tridents by overzealous devils?
Wouldn't you think that after a few millenia you would be like, "yep, keep stabbin'! Oh man, that smarts! Oh my!"


Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:10 pm
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So much of the truly BS rhetoric is more based on Dante's Inferno than any Biblical texts. The mythos is blown out of porportion by the very graphic detail involved in Inferno.

Biblically speaking, yes. Lake of fire, fallen angel, blah blah blah. But in hell? Nope. From Biblical text it is said he walks the Earth, like a lion, devouring souls. Some sects of Satanism call him the Lord of the Earth, as it is Biblically accurate to call him because of his presence among us.

According to Christianity's predecessor, Judaism, the torment and pain awaiting non-believers is the total seperation from God. The knowledge that God will never hear your cries, or pleas to return to His favor.

The old Hebrew version of heaven is called Abraham's Bosom. It's arriving to the warm grasp of the loving "father" of the nation of Israel and the immediate vicinity of the Creator and giver of Laws.

"False gods", AKA Baal (the Hebrew word meaning "nothing"), and fallen angels wander the Earth's surface and await the day they join gentiles and rejected Hebrews whom they've corrupted, according to the old mythos which pre-dates the Christian mythos by almost a millenia.

Dante helped bring the Greek and Roman definitions of afterlife into , then, mainstream Christianity. The thought of wandering a ring of hell prescribed by your mortal sin, and being subjected to "appropriate punishment", is an idea brought forth by some of the myths of Hades (also pre-dating Christianity by hundreds of years).

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If the kids want to play at being Satanists to shock their parents, let 'em - it's a very effective tool that's actually quite harmless. Satanists themselves can't seem to agree on what Satanism really is - it's very disorganized and contradictory. The LaVey system of Satanism was constructed by a very smart small-time huckster trying to get attention from the media and doing a damn good job of it by sticking some goat horns on a philosophy that had been around in one form or another since Dionysus.

I find the Christian concept of Satan very intriguing. From what I understand, the Christian Satan was God's right hand dude until he started thinking that he was doing all the work and God was reaping the rewards, so he said, screw this, I'm organizing a coup. The Christian Satan is very human - he's fallible and has wants and needs and stood up to God when God expected him to be perfect all the time. I think this is supposed to be an example of how the only faultless being in the world is God, but it seems to me God blew it with the Satan thing - if God is the only perfect thing in the universe, he should've been able to handle the situation a whole lot better. Kicking the unruly child out of the house doesn't seem to me to be a great solution - it didn't work on me when I was a teenager, so I doubt it'd work with the heavenly host. I think there's an underlying point to all of this, but I'm still not sure what it is (Revelations and the temptation of Christ - aka the New Testament Satan - bring some interesting hooks into the story). What are people's thoughts/understandings about the story behind the Christian Satan?

I totally agree that Dante did kind of ruin it for Satan - come on, a goat? - but I think he was just trying to write something interesting under the guise of religion, like everyone who made art in those days had to do. Dante created the Satan that is spray painted on the boulders down by the river and that metal bands sing about, and for that I give him props. Most of the evil in the Bible was not Satan but man doing bad things and God overreacting.


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+jamison+ wrote:
Ether wrote:
Satan supposedly went to hell because he was banished there for defying God and putting himself equal to Him.


Satan's in hell? Where did you read this?

Ether wrote:
Nobody who actually believed in the Christian concept of Satan would actually choose to worship him (if they were sane). Who would worship a demon who will only torture you and inflict unearthly pain on you for all of eternity?


Where does it say that Satan is going to torture and inflict unearthly pain on his worshipers? I can't seem to find anything about that.



No, Satan is NOT in hell. There is no Satan, and there is no hell.

Another way of saying it: Yes, he is as much in hell as Santa is on the north pole.

As to where all this Satan torturing people in hell stuff came from, try going to church. I went there for many years. I used to be a Catholic, but I found even more hellfire and Satan-talk in Baptist churches. The idea is prevalent in most of the world's Christian religions whether the bible directly references it or not (it doesn't, see Long Pig's post)

To clarify myself, my post was not intended to endorse any of these silly fairy tales. I was just trying to add to the conversation a little, as I was once interested in the priesthood and did a little research on these things. Not that I'm a know-it-all, I just thought I might have something to add that may be of interest- sprinkled with a little of my opinion. God and devils are cool ideas, but I don't regard them as having a basis in reality.

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Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:39 pm
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Little Red Hen wrote:
I totally agree that Dante did kind of ruin it for Satan - come on, a goat? - but I think he was just trying to write something interesting under the guise of religion, like everyone who made art in those days had to do. Dante created the Satan that is spray painted on the boulders down by the river and that metal bands sing about, and for that I give him props. Most of the evil in the Bible was not Satan but man doing bad things and God overreacting.


Dante didn't desribe the devil as a goat. A good representation of how Dante described the devil can be seen here: http://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/collection/in ... 00028.html


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Ether wrote:
To clarify myself, my post was not intended to endorse any of these silly fairy tales.


I assumed that. I was just pointing out that what you said was not biblicly based.

Ether wrote:
No, Satan is NOT in hell. There is no Satan, and there is no hell.


A person doesn't have to believe in something to discuss it. If I said that Yoda was a cowboy charactor in the Flintstones, then you corrected me, wouldn't it be silly for me to claim that there was "no such thing as Yoda" as my defense?

Ether wrote:
As to where all this Satan torturing people in hell stuff came from, try going to church.


I agree. But it doesn't mean they're right, and by "right", I mean correct according to the book they're teaching from.


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Post Re: Satanists: Why?
zom-zom wrote:
Since there have been two self-proclaimed satanists here as of late, why don't you tell us why you believe this stuff?

Most of the "satanists" (LeVay type or otherwise) that I have known seem to mostly do it simply to spite Christians/their parents or to be able to say "I'm a satanist".

I see absolutely no connection between Goth Music and Devil Worship myself.


The kids like the Satan now a-days. I blame the music.

Oh, and maybe some shitty neo-folk band thinks satan is cool too; getting the older generation.


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Haakon wrote:
Dante didn't desribe the devil as a goat. A good representation of how Dante described the devil can be seen here: http://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/collection/in ... 00028.html


from the link:
Quote:
At the centre stands Lucifer, frozen from the waist down, with three heads and bat-like wings, the flapping of which freezes the heart of Hell


According to Dante, hell already froze over... I have some ex's to call.

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satan is a hebrew word and means adversary - in the bible it makes no mention of which fallen angel is Satan - theologians think it may be Lucifer, but are not sure - basically satan is merely an adversary of God's - the old testament also mentions two gods - Jehova and Yahweh - some historians belive one god was kind - and the other was jealous - they were each other's adversarys and the jewish people eventually decided to worship one over the other - out of fear. Some even believe Jesus was the son of the other god and that his first incarnation was as of the snake in the garden of Eden - whose mission was to free Adam and Eve from the jealous god who did not want them to partake of the tree of knowledge... I would be interested to know if "satanists" even know that they might be worshiping Jesus

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bluediva wrote:
Some even believe Jesus was the son of the other god and that his first incarnation was as of the snake in the garden of Eden - whose mission was to free Adam and Eve from the jealous god who did not want them to partake of the tree of knowledge... I would be interested to know if "satanists" even know that they might be worshiping Jesus


I have never heard that part of the theory before... Can you tell me any info on where to find out about that?

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Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:03 pm
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google gnostic


Thu Jul 01, 2004 8:46 pm
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Haakon wrote:
Dante didn't desribe the devil as a goat.


really? My mistake. Does anyone know who did? And why a goat?


Thu Jul 01, 2004 10:25 pm
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Little Red Hen wrote:
Haakon wrote:
Dante didn't desribe the devil as a goat.


really? My mistake. Does anyone know who did? And why a goat?


Horned gods were worshipped in Europe and the rest of the world from the dawn of humanity. They were always part of a pagan belief system, a polytheistic belief system, which accepted many gods. Christianity changed all that. It felt an overpowering need to make their one god the god of everybody else within range, but to do this it was necessary to discredit the old pagan gods, and in particular the goddess and the horned god.

Pagan gods are aspects of Nature, and in Nature there can be no evil; it exists only in the human imagination. Monotheistic religions, on the other hand, require a god of evil as an adversary of their god of good. An obvious way to discredit the horned god and justify punishment of his worshippers is to say that he is, in fact, the god of evil in the new religion. And has been all along.


Then in AD 1248 Pope Innocent IV decided that it was time to suppress all heresy and for that purpose he founded The Holy Office, or as it later became better known, The Inquisition. Being an organisation run entirely by men it took an instant dislike to the old wise women living around every country village, passing on ancient pagan folk-lore to the new generation and selling folk medicine and magic charms. The priests declared that these women were worshippers of the devil, and must be burned. During the process of extracting imaginative confessions from their bewildered captives a brand new folk myth was gradually born, as the inquisitors continually outdid one another in imagining new horrors of depravity in the worship of Lucifer, and under torture their prisoners confessed to it all. Christianity created its own reflection, and called it Satanism.

This was the origin of Satanism as most people understand it.


Fri Jul 02, 2004 12:00 am
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bluediva wrote:
Being an organisation run entirely by men it took an instant dislike to the old wise women living around every country village...




Every country village had "old wise women" living around them? I've never been transported back in time myself, so I wasn't aware of this.
I suppose these villages were otherwise populated by Ignorant Old Men.

Still no "Satanists" have stepped forward to indicate why they believe what they believe.

That's all I'm interested in, not various spurious "historical accounts" of how these religions came to be.


Fri Jul 02, 2004 7:08 am
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zom-zom wrote:
Still no "Satanists" have stepped forward to indicate why they believe what they believe.


So when have people on this board claimed to be Satanists?

I've known a nunber of card carrying Church of Satan members over the years and found the spread of intelligence and likability to fall pretty much the same as it does in other people. A good friend of mine was a Satanist for a number of years and very articulate about it, I'd bring him down here, but he's not into it any more. He did do the most impressive blood-letting performance art that I am likely ever to see. Steve Leyba, Boyd Rice and Marc Almond are all "celebrity" Satanists as is that Electric Hellfire guy (though I think in his case the term "celebrity" might be mis-applied.)

I think Ether done a very good job explaining the basis of why people become Satanists, what else do you want to know?

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Fri Jul 02, 2004 4:32 pm
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Two members recently claimed to be "satanists". I'll find the posts if you really want me to.

I was puzzled by why a first-time poster would point out their "religious" views, or whatever you want to call it, right off the bat.

And no, Ether did not explain the basis of why people become satanists. That's entirely up to the individual don't you think? Not everyone subscribes to a belief for the same reason.

And the varied definitions of satanism listed here leave too much room for interpretation, even deeming it "La Vey" satanism.

I simply want to hear from the self-professed satanist individuals. I'm merely curious about it.


Fri Jul 02, 2004 6:44 pm
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I have known several people who claim to be Satanists and listen to music by bands that claim to be Satanists and read stuff by people who claim to be Satanists, but I have had only one make even an attempt at explaining it, and he was seventeen and wore bondage pants. I would also be fascinated to hear why someone becomes a Satanist, but I'm not sure if it's gonna happen. I haven't seen the self-professed Satanists registered to this board posting lately anyways.

There is a book on my bookshelf right now called "Lords of Chaos", and it's about Satanism and death metal with a focus on the whole Mayhem - Count Grishnackh dealie. In it, there are many interviews with people who committed crimes like church burning and grave desecration and even murder in the name of Satan - seems to me like one must have to be pretty secure in one's Satanic convictions to do something like that. It is interesting to me that most of these folks stuck with Satanism for a relatively short time before moving on to stuff like white supremacist/Nazism and that Norse gods thing - I think it's called Odinism or something.


Fri Jul 02, 2004 11:05 pm
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Little Red Hen wrote:
I have known several people who claim to be Satanists and listen to music by bands that claim to be Satanists and read stuff by people who claim to be Satanists, but I have had only one make even an attempt at explaining it, and he was seventeen and wore bondage pants. I would also be fascinated to hear why someone becomes a Satanist, but I'm not sure if it's gonna happen. I haven't seen the self-professed Satanists registered to this board posting lately anyways.


I really hope you're not talking about me... I think you knew me when I was 17 (and wearing bondage pants), though I never said anything about Satan.


Sat Jul 03, 2004 4:54 pm
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of course I'm not talking about you - I can picture you in Birkenstocks better than I can picture you as a Satanist, dear. I'm talking about this kid who went to the alternative high school that I tried to go to after flunking out of South. Yeah, you wore bondage pants, but you were doing no worse than the rest of us - remember my hairdo in high school? Yikes.


Sun Jul 04, 2004 5:01 pm
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Little Red Hen wrote:
but you were doing no worse than the rest of us - remember my hairdo in high school? Yikes.


Oh common, that hairdo was hot.

Though, perhaps not privey to Satan...


Sun Jul 04, 2004 6:37 pm
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I'm a <i>Satinist</i>.


Mon Jul 05, 2004 12:39 pm
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i actually did meet a devil worshipper, something along the lines that satan treats those that worship him as fellow gods to spite god himself. to make hell better than heaven i think. he was a funny guy to talk to.


Tue Jul 06, 2004 2:37 am
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Like many bodies of religious belief, there are a lot of brands of Satanism out there, and a heckuva (if you'll excuse the pun) lot more ideas on Satan/Lucifer/The Devil he/she/itself. Some thoughts:

Shaitan (whence the European Satan) or The Adversary plays a unique role in Judaic thought, appearing at times like God's quality control. For a good example, see the story of Job. It seems to be Satans purpose to test God's creation, especially humans, and to find out if it will respond within the expected paramaters, i.e. if people will behave morally and follow God's Law. Within that context, Shaitan is shown to possess something like Divine power over creation (although to a lesser extent than God) but no real malign intent. He's just doing his job, fulfilling his function, and isn't particularily evil.

The Christians at some point unified the concept of Lucifer (The light bringer) as a fallen angel, with the Judaic advisary, and the Snake of Genesis, and created our modern view of Satan (certainly with the help of both Dante and Milton.) Satan becomes a figure actively working against God and/or God's plan, attempting to corrupt or destroy God's creation. Certainly this view draws a lot from the Zoastrian conception of Ahriman (also, I beleieve, The Adversary in classical Persian).

Incenedently, Islam picked up a mostly blend of views on Shayatan, holding him to be a rebellious angel who would not serve humans because that would detract from his adoration of God. Many Muslim scholars have attested that the cycle of creation will be complete when even Shayatan redeems himself and is saved.

Satanism throughot history seems to fall into a few major camps:
There are the Cathars, and their theological offspring who denied the Crucifixion, rejected the Western and Eastern orthodoxies, and viewed base matter, and the material world as inherently corrupt and evil. To there view, any force that created the world must be inherently corrupt, and some sects came to view the creator of the biblical texts as an evil (or misguided) force. To the Orthodoxy of the day, this looked like they were rejecting God, and thus adhereing to God's enemy (i.e. Satan).

Some of these ideas would enter the Western Hermetic magical tradition. Atvarious times, theories would arise that the way to purge the material body of sin and selfish desires would be to expiate and perform all of the acts of the flesh, especially those forbidden by orthodoxy. Aliester Crowley at times purported to hold to this view, but what the man really thought is obscure.

When Satan started being cast as a tempter of souls, it became a common view that he would sometimes offer success, money, power, magic or whatnot in the material world in exchange for that person rejecting God/Jesus, and thus barring themselves from entry into the afterlife. There have been a number of people who figure, "Why the he!! not?" and attempt to goad Satan into picking them by doing such acts as the figure he would like or would attract him. Thus, many would be Satanists do things especially forbidden by orthodoxy. Sadly, the wacko Christian edge which has always been with us, and is not restricted to any particular denomination or party (read Augustine, or even Paul to see what I mean). This type of Satanist has often been a bogeyman to frighten people with, in order to scare them into orthodox thought and behavior, and to support abuses of cananonical authority.

Some sects of Christianity go so far as to believe that if one rejects a "properly Christian" belief system, lifestyle and public statement of faith, then one is rejecting Jesus and worshipping Satan, whether or not one actually recognizes or espouses that idea. Thus, the rest of us are considered followers of Satan, whether we think we are or not.

As noted, there have been modern revivals of an essentially hedonistic doctorine of self- or pleasure-worship. Given mainstream religion's general rejection of these ideas, some identify their principles with Satanism

Also, I have met one or two professed Luciferians, who claim to venerate Lucifer/the Snake as the spirit who rejected God's attempt to perpetuate humanity's exisistence as a grovelling worship machine. they see Satan (again, also Lucifer/the Snake) as a liberator who brought freedom of conscience and the knowledge of good and evil (a requirement for making ethics decisions) to humanity. They are thus on the order of theological anarchists.

Finally, there are those people who turn to a rejection of Judeo-Christian orthodoxy and an inversian of Judeo-Christian ceremony as an attempt to find thrills, scare people, and be wild, crazy, or different.


Mon Jul 12, 2004 1:24 am
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Good post, Praxis.

One clarification: Biblically, Satan rules the physical world and has power over material items. He is jealous of God and wants to build his own kingdom, complete with souls who worship him. However, he does not have anything to offer his followers in eternity, so he uses bribery and trickery to attract attention and gather a following. J.R.R. Tolkien depicted this idea of Satan as the dark lord Sauron, who lured followers with a visions of power and glory (and the help of magic rings).

The burning, torturous depiction of Hell is not what Satan wants. He'd rather be all-powerful and free like God is. Rather, the "lake of fire" is a PRISON that God created for Satan. So it's not the devil who punishes the wicked... The wicked simply join Satan in his prison.

Praxis wrote:
Some sects of Christianity go so far as to believe that if one rejects a "properly Christian" belief system, lifestyle and public statement of faith, then one is rejecting Jesus and worshipping Satan, whether or not one actually recognizes or espouses that idea. Thus, the rest of us are considered followers of Satan, whether we think we are or not.


The train of thought above is derived mostly from Matthew 12:30 which says "He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters." That makes sense to a point. If you don't follow God, then you will follow something else. That "something else" can be anything: fun, entertainment, sex, status, fame, power, victory, money, etc. Usually anything that detracts you from God is somehow bound to the material world. Since the material world is ruled by Satan, he uses material pleasures to tempt and lure people away from God, whether they know it or not.

I don't think that makes people "Devil Worshippers." If a person has never heard the Gospel and is uneducated about such things, they'll simply wander through life as best they can, and God will decide what to do with them in eternity. However, if somebody knows about the Gospel and simply rejects it because "it seems like too much work" and they'd rather pursue material pleasures in life, then it could be contrived that they are denying God, any chance of an eternal life, and are following Satan, whether they label it that way or not.

That's still a little strong for me. I believe that human beings are rotten by nature. I think we're all going down, and we're all tempted by Satan every day. I believe that without God, we might as well consider ourselves Satanic, because we're all headed to hell together. This is a concept that elitist Christians fail to realize: They're just as sinful as anybody else! Historically, this has been Christianity's greatest downfall, because they wear their faith like a badge, and the feel it gives them the right to incriminate others. Even worse, to start wars or crusades... all in the name of God. Pffft!

Christians do not have the right to judge others as "Satanic" or treat them differently. It would be like the pot calling the kettle black. It is only by the grace and mercy of God that Christians are rescued from being damned to hell... and that should make them THANKFUL and HUMBLE, not snide and arrogant.

"Satanic" is just a stupid label that nobody wants. (Kinda like Gothic!) Nobody in their right mind would actually worship Satan. They just get called that by elitist Christians because they're not following God. Either way, it makes no difference to me what people choose to believe... I'll treat them no differently. The only difference between me and them is the way I choose to view the world... a lens called faith.

I'm a Christian, and some of my best friends are "satanic".


Mon Jul 12, 2004 10:28 am
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Satanism is a Christian heresy, plain and simple. In order to buy into Satanism, you have to buy into Christian theology.

Satanism's antecedents however are not such as the Gnostics and Cathars . The Christains merely (merely?) accused them of worshiping Satan during various power-struggles.

Various Pagan traditions of course, to this day, are accused of being devil-worshipers. But if you don't beleive in Christianity, you can not beleive in their Devil.


Sun Jul 18, 2004 1:47 pm
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atlas shrugged by ann rand is what most modern satanists claim live by - good book - selfishness is a good philosophy, ie if you do what is truly right for you it is , by default , what is right for everyone around you, that is integrity in its purist form... self proclaimed satanists consider themselves to be philosophers - but i personally do not understand why they care to have a word w/ such a horrible connotation attached to thier sound but misunderstood philosophy - they profess to not even beleive in the "devil" - google satanist - it is pretty interesting what you find - by the definition of "modern satanism" most of us are "satanists" but I would never go around claiming to be one cause - well, that just seems kinda dorky.


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+jamison+ wrote:
I'm a <i>Satinist</i>.



hehe... I too enjoy satin, although I've also been accused of being a silkist and a leatherist.

~Ether~

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Tue Jul 20, 2004 2:03 pm
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bluediva wrote:
atlas shrugged by ann rand is what most modern satanists claim live by .

This is sad for so many reasons, but mainly:
1. Whoever these "modern satanists" are, they are reading a rousing endorsement for neo-conservatism, and not free thinking.
2. They could actually read good books instead.
3. While there is a need for essential selfishness, selifishness for its own sake (and as a philosophy)lacks anything even remotely like integrity. No, that is actually a way for people to excuse their genuinely rotten behavior.


Wed Jul 21, 2004 10:42 am
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Man Ray wrote:
Satanism is just an offshoot of Christianity, which as far as I'm concerned, makes them essentially Christian. Just saying you believe the opposite of whatever doesn't actually divorce you from it.


doesn't that make andrea dworkin a misogynist?

well, doesn't it?

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Wed Jul 21, 2004 4:13 pm
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While I do think that most sects of Satanism are laughable, I like to cut them a fair amount of slack, so long as they're not hurting anyone. I'm thankful that there are people who are upset enough with the Christian church to openly challenge it in a way that turns heads. I'm sympathetic to the Lucifer myth myself, and agree with some of the beliefs surrounding it. Granted, I'm certainly no expert on it, nor do I associate myself with any kind of Satanism, but I understand the desire to rebel against a jealous God who's only purpose in creating you was so you could laud him for eternity as a loyal seraphim. What a horrid existance. It touches on free will as well, as some people have pointed out on this post. There are some good ideas in some realms of Satanic thought, as there are in Christianity and other major religions. We all should be free to believe what we want be it God, Satan, or the Cosmic Chicken.


Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:49 pm
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the cosmic chicken is irrefutable. the other two yokels are just fly-by-night newcomers, who have offered us nothing but cannibalism and self-indulgence.

all praise cosmic chicken.

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Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:56 pm
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For anyone who is interested, here's an excellent book regarding the Luciferian Current:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... ce&s=books

All apologies for the length of the link, any direct link to a book on Amazon becomes very long.

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