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 Satanists: Why? 
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Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:03 pm
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I'm a velvetist, myself; and what's wrong with a good self-image? I'm not a Satanist, either; but I can appreciate feeling good about ones self. And thanks to the people who have supplied information on this topic. It's appreciated.


Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:44 pm
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<b>Beating of Queens Satanist Prompts Hate Crime Charges</b>

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/12/nyregion/12attack.html?ei=5006&en=873c2a5018b070a9&ex=1106110800&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position=">Click</a>

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Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:49 am
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drok_vox wrote:
Man Ray wrote:
Satanism is just an offshoot of Christianity, which as far as I'm concerned, makes them essentially Christian. Just saying you believe the opposite of whatever doesn't actually divorce you from it.


doesn't that make andrea dworkin a misogynist?

well, doesn't it?


She does, in fact, seem to hate and revile pretty much everybody, and she certainly has made her name ranting about misogyny. Granted.

More people are willing to admit the existence of the institution(s) of Christianity than of "the patriarchy." Zealots of any stripe make me tired.


Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:18 am
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I actually do believe that dworkin is a misogynist*. Believieving that all forms of male/female intercourse are rape of the female means you rpetty much believe that women are powerless and have no control, no ability to make choices. sounds pretty anti-female to me.

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Wed Jan 12, 2005 2:43 am
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Hi guys, i'm new and i'm a 'satanist' ( i like quotes ). as to why.... it's hard to explain. there's christianity, where you have a god and all stuff that was created to make the story of god and such belivable. Now not to offend anyone but i think it's just stupid.
Satanism is hard for me to describe really, ( but i'm not that good at describing period) but things i think of are the belife in the non-existance of heavan, which implies there's no reward for having a good life (this doesn't mean i'm a constant "sinner"). It's also, more obviously the belife in satan as the rulling power of the world, (satan-ism get it? lol (<yes that was stupid as hell)) that we're being controlled by evil. But it's things that that i think describe satanism.
NOW, why i choose to belive in it is that i have had a belife of hell since i was a kid, but never belived in heavan... that's not WHY but it contributes. It feels to me that the darkness/evilness is part of me, which is not THAT ENTIRELY different from gothic ideas (but they ARE different in some ways that i bet you guys could explain better than i could). It also is appealing to me because it's a feeling that i'm just gunna do whatever the hell i want to do and no one will tell me it's bad. well they can.. but i'm not gunna listen.

on the flip side i'm not like.. crazy and go around killing cows. I retain thought in what i do, it's just i'm not afraid of doing something bad if it's what i really wanna do and it's not gunna screw up the rest of my life. it's odd..

and the dark/evilness... it's even harder to explain.... it's just so comforting. That's the simplest way i can put it.

i'm satanic by choice. It, like being a goth, makes me feel complete. I understand why people connect the two, but they are sadly mistaken.... there is a huge difference.

WEll anyways.. done ranting.


Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:07 am
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justanotherscreenname wrote:
. It feels to me that the darkness/evilness is part of me, .


Are you playing alot of D&D these days? If not you should, your dark powers are needed there.

OR, I suggest you read this!

http://www.chick.com/default.asp


Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:37 am
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justanotherjackass wrote:
It also is appealing to me because it's a feeling that i'm just gunna do whatever the hell i want to do and no one will tell me it's bad. well they can.. but i'm not gunna listen.


This is what most "satanists" believe, according to my reading. So really, all you're saying is that you don't like rules, and you aren't going to follow any. You also say it's just a form of personal expression.

The word "satanist" means "follower of Satan". But that's not what you're doing... you're just being a rebel. This thread started because we wanted to know why people were joining this message board and loudly proclaiming to be satanists. We wanted to know why they felt a need to share that, and what it meant for them to be a follower of Satan. Unless you're praying to Lucifer or performing Satanic rituals, I don't see how you claim to be "satanic" with any seriousness. I think you're just using the term as a way of drawing attention to your rebellion... you're not really worshipping Satan at all.


Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:28 am
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yeah ya know you're right.... i was on a waayyy sugar high last night don't really know what i was thinkin *whacks head*


Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:25 pm
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Little Red Hen wrote:
Haakon wrote:
Dante didn't desribe the devil as a goat.


really? My mistake. Does anyone know who did? And why a goat?



I can answer that. The answer is Dave Mustaine from the band Megadeth.

Here is an excerpt from the song Go to Hell by Megadeth:

I saw my funeral that day,
I know who didn’t show to mourn.
My judgement was life in hell,
Pillars of pain and thorns.
My only friend’s the goat,
With 666 between his horns.
Go to hell!

Place all your trust here in me,
Rest assured these things I know.
And as Charon sails the sea,
Your journey too shall end below.
Ah yes, you’re all sitting ducks,
It’s true you reap what you sow.
Go to hell!


~Ether~

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 6:58 pm
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Frost wrote:
The word "satanist" means "follower of Satan". But that's not what you're doing... you're just being a rebel. This thread started because we wanted to know why people were joining this message board and loudly proclaiming to be satanists. We wanted to know why they felt a need to share that, and what it meant for them to be a follower of Satan. Unless you're praying to Lucifer or performing Satanic rituals, I don't see how you claim to be "satanic" with any seriousness.



I agree with your diagnosis, but not all Satanists are followers of Satan. I think some people touched upon this already within this thread. In my experience, it seems there are three types of Satanists.

1. Self-worship, or a true Satanist. Someone who recognizes that God created everything good, evil, and otherwise. We are all therefor parts of God which means we all ARE God and should act as such. I've met some cool people that were of this persuasion.
2. Satan-worshippers - people who actually claim to worship the dark prince himself. That's right, the big scary Satan... really nasty fallen angel. Satan rebelled against God and was cast into hell and started his own little following. These people generally have no idea what it is they really believe in, hence it is hard to get them to step up and actually put their beliefs on the table. They tend to like really heavy metal and cloaks and symbols and cloaks... goats and horns, spells and fire, snakes and skulls. I've never met any cool people from this persuasion. That is, I've met people like this- they've just never been cool.
3. Satanic wannabes - these people have no real spritual connection to Satanism, they just like saying they're Satanic. Like the folks in #2, they also tend to enjoy heavy metal, goats, fire, symbols, skulls, and other cool stuff like that. Not because it means anything to them, just because it looks so damn badass on jewelry and T-shirts. I've met these people at Korn and Manson concerts. They had cool jewelry, but were boring otherwise.

~Ether~

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Mon Mar 28, 2005 7:13 pm
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the satan/goat thing is a popular theme in medieval art, for a few reasons. mostly, it has to do with the demonization of horned god religious in western and northern europe (Pan, Kuernounos, Frey, Mannanan, etc, etc).

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 1:25 am
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drok_vox wrote:
the satan/goat thing is a popular theme in medieval art, for a few reasons. mostly, it has to do with the demonization of horned god religious in western and northern europe (Pan, Kuernounos, Frey, Mannanan, etc, etc).



True... true... but I'm pretty sure Dave Mustaine predates all of that crap.

~Ether~

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Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:54 am
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Ether wrote:
True... true... but I'm pretty sure Dave Mustaine predates all of that crap.

~Ether~



Lies, damned lies. It was Mercyful Fate who created the "satan/goat" thing, just so that King Diamond could feel all smart like. Example (from 1984's "Don't Break the Oath" album):
"The Oath"
By the Symbol of the Creator,
I swear henceforth to be
A faithful Servant of his most puissant Arch-Angel
The Prince Lucifer
Whom the Creator designated as His Regent
And Lord of this World, Amen.

I deny Jesus Christ, the Deceiver
And I abjure the Christian Faith
Holding in contempt all of it's Works

As a Being now possessed of a human Body
In this World I swear to give my full Allegiance
To it's lawful Master, to worship Him
Our Lord Satan, and no other
In the name of Satan, the ruler of Earth
Open wide the Gates of Hell
and come forth from the Abyss
By these Names: Satan, Leviathan, Belial, Lucifer
I will kiss the Goat

I swear to give my mind, my Body and Soul unreservedly
To the Furtherance of our Lord Satan's Designs.

Do What Thou Wilt, Shall Be The Whole Of The Law

As it was in the Beginning, is now, and ever shall be
World without End, Amen.



**************************


You see, I told you. Any earlier examples are fabrications concocted by King Diamond, so don't try to confuse me.


Sat Apr 02, 2005 4:02 am
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drok_vox wrote:
the satan/goat thing is a popular theme in medieval art, for a few reasons. mostly, it has to do with the demonization of horned god religious in western and northern europe (Pan, Kuernounos, Frey, Mannanan, etc, etc).


Predating that, even, is the Jewish custom of placing all the sins of the people on a single goat, the 'scape goat' as it were, and sending him off into the desert to be taken by the demons who taught man the art of war, and such.

Also, back in medieval times, there were certain witch circles that believed they worshiped Satan, who was represented as a man garbed as a goat. Personally, I just think this was a guy out for some easy action.

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Sat Apr 02, 2005 8:30 pm
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Nemphusi wrote:
Personally, I just think this was a guy out for some easy action.


:D

I like the "scape goat" explanation, too. (Baal was a goat (or was it baphomet? I can't keep my damn semitic tribal deities straight), and I belive padzuzu was goatish as well... go figure)

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Sat Apr 02, 2005 11:33 pm
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So was Pan. I always felt he was a little Satanic.

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Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:08 pm
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Why do you deny the power of King Diamond? Here, look at how your insolence has displeased him: http://www.covenworldwide.org/KDMFphotos/king-7.jpg

Now don't you feel terrible?


Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:10 pm
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Haakon wrote:
http://www.covenworldwide.org/KDMFphotos/king-7.jpg

<i>There's</i> Tupac!!!


Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:38 pm
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Haakon wrote:
Why do you deny the power of King Diamond? Here, look at how your insolence has displeased him: http://www.covenworldwide.org/KDMFphotos/king-7.jpg

Now don't you feel terrible?


absolutely wretched.

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Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:59 pm
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rskm1 wrote:
Haakon wrote:
http://www.covenworldwide.org/KDMFphotos/king-7.jpg

<i>There's</i> Tupac!!!



Don't press your luck, Eazy E. I will not be confused by the facts, but yes, that is, in fact, Mr Tupac Shakur.


Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:33 am
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Happy Walpurgisnacht.
It's a nice day for a black mass.


What sort of card does one send today? Only ones designed by Eliphas Levi?


Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:49 pm
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Happy Walrus Snot!


Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:58 pm
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the goat connection goes back into ancient judaism, with the sacrifical scapegoat. It became popular in the medieval times as the guise taken by the 'devils' who would start witch covens.

Jesus even used goats as an allegory for the damned in one of his parables.

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Sun May 01, 2005 1:22 pm
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Walpurgisnacht isn't particularly Satanist... it's just another pagan holiday.

The scapegoat thing is cool... but I wouldn't say it was the only reason the connection was made. lots of pagan traditions have stuck with that whole big mess.

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Sun May 01, 2005 1:39 pm
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drok_vox wrote:
Walpurgisnacht isn't particularly Satanist... it's just another pagan holiday.


Considering the fact that the Church of Satan has it as their high holiday, and see it as the starting date for their calendar (It is currently Year 40, Anno Satanas), I would consider it a satanist holiday. The C. of. S. see it as legitimately satanic, and they are the only organized satanists who count, as they are the only ones who have ever shown any sense of humor.


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www.the600club.com


Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:09 am
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It's not hard to figure out why goats are considered such great symbols of evil. They got those devil eyes... damn devil eyes... Just ask Brian Fellows.

~Ether~

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Fri Oct 28, 2005 3:48 pm
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Ether wrote:
It's not hard to figure out why goats are considered such great symbols of evil. They got those devil eyes... damn devil eyes... Just ask Brian Fellows.~Ether~


How do fainting goats work into that equation? Are they lapsing in their satanitude?


Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:44 pm
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Myatonic goats! I love 'em!

The power of Satan compells them, they are overtaken by the absolute glory and must collapse on the spot in worship. And by worship, I mean they just tip over, stiff-legged and bleating. That's funny.


Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:29 pm
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all this talk of evil goats makes me think of Son of Sam

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Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:05 pm
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the vampires kiss wrote:
all this talk of evil goats makes me think of Son of Sam


That would be evil dogs.


Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:53 am
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eh, goats, dogs
they're both furry animals

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Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:34 pm
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drok_vox wrote:
(Baal was a goat (or was it baphomet? I can't keep my damn semitic tribal deities straight)


In which religion/philosophy? The only Baal I know of was the Carthaginian sun god.

Ironically, it's from this Pagan god that we have "Sundays." You see, one of Rome's emperors worshipped Baal, and decreed that it would be the official religion of Rome. The senate eventually passed laws to make a day of rest for religion (possibly influenced by the book of genesis, as Christianity was becoming popular at the time) but in the beginning it was devoted to Baal. This eventually corrupted to "Sunday" as Baal was god of the sun.

The entire structure and process of the Catholic Church is based off pagan Roman rituals, I won't go into it now, but it's quite an interesting topic to learn about if religion and philosophy is your thing.

On the original topic, I once dated a girl who claimed to be a Satanist. She even tried to convert me. She was only a Satanist because her parents were hardcore Catholics, and she viewed it as rebelling against them.


Sat Dec 03, 2005 4:41 am
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I've read a bit about Satanism, mainly LaVeyan (grarg, did I spell that right?) principals and such. I can say I agree with a lot of it, but I'm more Agnostic when it comes to my beliefs. So I guess maybe I could say I'm an Agnostic Satanist? XD Well, I don't know if I'd go as far as to follow any one belief. I agree with a lot of the ideas of Satanism, but I don't think I'd go as far as call myself a Satanist. I just admit that, truly, the only thing I know is that I don't know anything.

Why do I agree with some of the principals? I don't know. I just do.

Personally, I don't see why people think just because someone's a Satanist that it justifies treating them like shit or calling them murderers. Personally, Satanists would likely be intelligent people and understand that, while morally they may not care, there's really no point in murdering anyone because in this day and age of technology, the chances of getting away with it are slim. And even if you could, the work itself is a waste of energy half of the time, so why bother?

In honesty the whole Satanistic and goth connection is annoying. On the one hand, you've got people saying "goths are Satanists" and then goths renouncing that "goths aren't Satanists". While I think any sweeping generalization is wrong, if some goths ARE Satanists... so what? I understand not wanting to be negatively dragged down as goths and all but I think it's idiotic that being a Satanist automatically makes you this crazed serial killer when actually there haven't been any connections with "Satanic cults" and murders. In fact, most serial killers are outgoing and appear perfectly normal happy surburban people on the outside. I can understand not wanting to be labelled all of this but... honestly, it's annoying that Satanist is automatically made into this image. People really should do some research.


Tue May 02, 2006 3:06 am
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gothiclola wrote:
Personally, I don't see why people think just because someone's a Satanist that it justifies treating them like shit or calling them murderers. Personally, Satanists would likely be intelligent people and understand that, while morally they may not care, there's really no point in murdering anyone because in this day and age of technology, the chances of getting away with it are slim. And even if you could, the work itself is a waste of energy half of the time, so why bother?

In honesty the whole Satanistic and goth connection is annoying. On the one hand, you've got people saying "goths are Satanists" and then goths renouncing that "goths aren't Satanists". While I think any sweeping generalization is wrong, if some goths ARE Satanists... so what? I understand not wanting to be negatively dragged down as goths and all but I think it's idiotic that being a Satanist automatically makes you this crazed serial killer when actually there haven't been any connections with "Satanic cults" and murders. In fact, most serial killers are outgoing and appear perfectly normal happy surburban people on the outside. I can understand not wanting to be labelled all of this but... honestly, it's annoying that Satanist is automatically made into this image. People really should do some research.


1. When serial killers like the Nightstalker identify themselves as satanists, that might be where the killer/satanist connection comes from.
2. In a Christian nation, where one of the core beliefs is that satan is the adversary of God and man, people who identify themselves as satanists establish themselves as the opposition to those who are christians. LaVey did it as a reaction against what he hated about christian culture, but most people aren't smart enough to look that far into it.


Tue May 02, 2006 10:25 pm
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Haakon wrote:
1. When serial killers like the Nightstalker identify themselves as satanists, that might be where the killer/satanist connection comes from.
2. In a Christian nation, where one of the core beliefs is that satan is the adversary of God and man, people who identify themselves as satanists establish themselves as the opposition to those who are christians. LaVey did it as a reaction against what he hated about christian culture, but most people aren't smart enough to look that far into it.


*nods* I can understand the connection when there's identification, but the connection between Satanists as cults who sacrifice babies and eat them every night is a bullshit connection. And personally, any Satanist who is a serial killer probably doesn't know much about Satanism. A cardinal sin of Satanism is stupidity. Being a serial killer in a day and age where technology is getting better and better doesn't strike me as intelligent.

I can understand the dislike of Satanists by Christians because they're techniqally adversaries but... didn't Jesus say to love your enemies? I'm not feeling much love from them. :P


Sat May 06, 2006 5:54 pm
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If you follow what LaVey originally intended, when he began his crusade to campaign the 'Church of Satan', it's alot like what Shakespeare wrote as advice from Polonius to his son Laertes in 'Hamlet':
"This above all; To thine own self be true"

The philisophy of Satanism is one that I, personally, adhere to. It means, basically, {not to worship yourself}, but instead to treat yourself with uptmost respect; not permiting anything to come between yourselves, and your earthly pleasures. Life is too short to contemplate what paths to take; choose the one with the most self-gratifying end-destination, and enjoy the trip while it lasts.
The theological aspects are where it gets a bit confusing to most people. LaVey DID say "Hail Satan", and did claim to worship the Christian anti-diety; however, as others have said, it was simply as a tool to get his new 'faith' the advertising it needed. I doubt he actually worshiped Satan, {if anything, I'd bet on the Self-worship mentioned prior}; but he did acknowledge the existence of both God and Satan.

I've studied theology in-depth, and although I believe with LaVey's philosophy, I don't necessarily follow the Satanist's theological viewpoints, {mainly because they have yet to sit and thouroughly define any}. I do believe that the Christian diety exists, for dismissing a God of any type is pure folly, but I don't accede any of the teachings associated with Him.
Instead, I believe that most of the Gods/Goddesses throughout history were based upon truth's, and either existed at one time, or still do exist to this day.

The question of today's society, instead of "Is God/Are Gods real?", should be "Do we need a God?"
Each person can answer this differently. Some may take solice in faith of a superior being, others may disregard any thoughts of one altogether, and answer only to themselves.


Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:27 am
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How is dismissing a God of any type "pure folly?"

I have yet, in my lifetime, to hear one solid, rational reason to accept the existence of a "God."
In my line of thinking, to accept that there's some cosmic astronaut out there on the fringes pulling the strings and setting things in motion is the purest of all follies. It's utterly ludicrous.

There is no god, there is no satan. These are merely goofy characters made up by the small-minded to explain grand concepts that are too large for us to comprehend at this point in our evolution.

I believe in science. While it can't explain everything, I guarantee you that someday it will. But I'm not going to go along with these hokey stories about some omnipotent diety for damn sure.

And as far as LaVey goes, he was a severely mentally ill individual who was notoriously abused as a child. His mindset was warped by his evil mother, and most of his "philosophy" was just self-aggrandizing horseshit.


Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:00 pm
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Everything previously posted was merely Personal Opinions. {What is Philosophy if not opinion based?} And, unlike the Church, I fully recognize the fact that each person supports the ability and freedom to process their own thoughts upon the matter.

For my "Pure folly" remark:
There are countless tales, accounts, and records of a numerous amount of Superior Entities throughout history. Realistically, most legends are founded within reality/based upon true effects. So whether these Beings are actually Gods, or Aliens, or simply Spirits {Mother Nature} can't be determined; what Can be determined is the fact that all througout history, man has had relationships with, what they referred to as, Deities, or Gods. So, to my personal belief, is that due to the sheer number of tales, be they Tall or not, they must support some form of truth between their lines.

For LaVey:
I never claimed him a great man, nor a great mind, nor even an original mind. I simply understand aspects of what he was attempting to teach/preach, whether those same ideas were older than himself doesn't apply. The fact that we all have the ability to make ourselves happy, and we should act on that ability. Your life is your own, and may be your only one, {reincarnation theories aside}.
As for his personal belief's; he was entitled to them, as are we all. If one chooses to follow his teachings, so be it.


Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:10 am
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Quote:
Mephistote:
So, to my personal belief, is that due to the sheer number of tales, be they Tall or not, they must support some form of truth between their lines.

...he said, as he hung his stockings by the chimney with care.


Wed Jun 07, 2006 4:54 pm
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Case in Point:
Santa Claus is a tall tale with a factual foundation. Santa Claus is a fictional being, yet the historical figure he is based upon truly existed.
Saint Nicholas, patron saint of merchants, lived around 4th century Turkey. There is a tale of him helping a poor family, by dropping bags of gold down their chimney while they slept at night.

So, whether Gods are real or fabricated, I believe somewhere in the annals of history lay a realistic foundation for their belief. A 'God' of today may have merely been a King, or a scientist within an age of mysticism; no matter what they were in person, the legends have far outgrown the original.


Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:47 pm
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Mephistote wrote:
Case in Point:
Santa Claus is a tall tale with a factual foundation. Santa Claus is a fictional being, yet the historical figure he is based upon truly existed.
Saint Nicholas, patron saint of merchants, lived around 4th century Turkey. There is a tale of him helping a poor family, by dropping bags of gold down their chimney while they slept at night.

So, whether Gods are real or fabricated, I believe somewhere in the annals of history lay a realistic foundation for their belief. A 'God' of today may have merely been a King, or a scientist within an age of mysticism; no matter what they were in person, the legends have far outgrown the original.


Except nobody really worships Santa... they just want him to give them stuff.

Seriously though, I do agree with the essence of what you're saying. The legend of Jesus is much the same. It's basically the story of a travelling renegade Jew who bucked the system, claimed to be the son of god, and was killed for it. His story was told and retold and written and rewritten, getting wilder and more exaggerated with time- all the while borrowing from past myths and legends. Now we are left with a fantastic story about this guy who was born to a virgin under a celestial event, had magical powers, and came back from the dead.

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Thu Jun 08, 2006 12:45 am
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I merely used Santa Claus as a point of comparison due to the "Stockings with care" remark.

Jesus is another perfect examply of what I was saying. Whether he actually performed the miracles attributted to him, none can really say, but the man himself did live at one time.

So, whether there are now, or ever were, true 'Gods' is for each person to decide for themselves; I only attempt to point out that each tale has some type of historic fact to serve as its foundation.


Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:14 am
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Quote:
Mephistote:
Jesus is another perfect examply of what I was saying. Whether he actually performed the miracles attributted to him, none can really say, but the man himself did live at one time.

Jesus and St.Nick both existed. But it begs the question:
SO. WHAT. ?!?

How do you get from:
"These ludicrous stories incorporate actual historical personas into them."
to:
"It's folly to disbelieve these ludicrous stories, because they incorporate actual historical personas into them."
???

Mankind throughout history has come up with silly stories about the sun and moon chasing each other around in the sky, and invisible supermen that conjure up hail and ruin their crops when an insufficient number of virgins had been killed.

SCIENCE has come up with better, more feasible explanations for all of those occurrences.
Only a moron[*] would deny that it won't continue to do so.
Whether that moron[*] believes in Santa, God, or Satan is inconsequential.

( [*] Could also be a "deluded genius"; I simply use "moron" for brevity, even though it's not very complimentary or all-encompassing).

A fat guy teleported down your chimney and left you presents? A video recorder will prove that claim one way or the other.
Somebody turned water into the best wine they ever tasted? Umm yeah, the best wine that someone who doesn't know what Kool-Aid is ever tasted.
Somebody walked on water during a storm? Duhh, ever see a surfboard?


Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:34 am
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science is completely incapable of answering some of the more fundamental questions, though. that's why we have philosophy and religion.

both get abused constantly.

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Thu Jun 08, 2006 1:37 pm
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The Bible = The Greatest FanFic Ever Told.

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Thu Jun 08, 2006 11:49 pm
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"God" is for people who look for the cop-out to the really difficult questions about existence.

Jesus was a man who existed two thousand years ago. "God" is merely the product of mankind's imagination, to explain the things he, as of yet, cannot explain himself. "God" is no different, and no more ludicrous an explanation of how things came to be, than the "Gods" who lived on a Grecian mountain in ancient Greek times. The diffference is, we reached the peak of that particular mountain and realized the Greeks were full of shit. Eventually this will be the case with all who believe in a "God." You cannot overcome pure science. There is no "faith" that will stand in its path, ultimately.


Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:15 am
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
"God" is for people who look for the cop-out to the really difficult questions about existence.


That may be a bit strong for me, as I respect a lot of people who worship some sort of God, but your point is very clear. To me, when dealing with unanswered questions or unanswerable questions one has a decision to make. You can allow it to be unknown or you can fill in the blanks with answers if the unknown is not satisfying to you. Faith in some sort of higher power helps many people fill in those blanks that would otherwise remain nebulous.

Personally, I have no trouble letting the unknown be what it is. It doesn't bother me that mankind hasn't cracked the code of the universe and gained a complete understanding of all things in existance. I don't lay awake at night contemplating where we go when we die. I have to say that my beliefs are rather unique in my circle of friends however, and most people require a more complete picture than I do.

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Fri Jun 09, 2006 10:20 am
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Quote:
.. You can allow it to be unknown or you can fill in the blanks with answers if the unknown is not satisfying to you. Faith in some sort of higher power helps many people fill in those blanks that would otherwise remain nebulous.

Maybe it's just me, but I consider the inability/unwillingness to admit "I don't know" to be a character flaw.


Fri Jun 09, 2006 12:38 pm
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Although I can fully understand what you are trying to say, it all sounds a little too cut-and-dry for me. I don't think the answers are going to be quite black-or-white, real-or-not.

What about those that claim to have had personal contacts with deities, be they the Modern, or the Ancient, {people had alot more supposed contact with their Gods before Christianity sprouted forth}.
You could compare them to the people that claim to have been abducted by Aliens. Science has proven that there is much more than we know about beyond our small piece of the universe; it's quite feasible that there are other life forms elsewhere in the galaxy.
Yet, most of the people that claim actual encounters are considered to be fabricating for attention.
This goes to show how one man's personal experiances can not, normally, set the minds of those around him. People are too skeptical towards anything unseen for themselves, {and even then some make up excuses for what they experianced}.
So, back to my point, although most of the experiances of those whom claim to have spoken with a God may be, in fact, complete falsehoods; I'm not so convinced that there may not be one or two among the folds that might not have self-invented the whole ordeal.
{If there are deities, wouldn't they attempt to contact a few people here and there in attempt to get some worship going for themselves?}


Fri Jun 09, 2006 1:18 pm
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{If there are deities, wouldn't they attempt to contact a few people here and there in attempt to get some worship going for themselves?}

Sure, why not? After all, I spend MY afternoons wondering how to get ants to worship Me. I'll bet there are ants out there discussing how the one I stepped on yesterday was being punished by Me for his sins, and are at this moment erecting a huge sand-pile temple in My honor, in the hopes that I won't smite them tomorrow with My sneaker of righteous vengeance.


Fri Jun 09, 2006 3:31 pm
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A whole theory on omnipotence claims that a deity's 'Godhood' depends fully upon his/her follower's faith within them. Which is why the Christian god declared all others as 'False Gods', thereby taking worship and faith from any rivals, thus making himself the only True God.
So, it would leave that any 'fallen' deity, whom wished to reclaim their 'throne', so to speak, attempting to re-establish themselves as an actual Deity, by reiterating a new line of faith for themselves.
So, unless you were once 'God of Ants', then you have nothing to aspire towards by squashing them, except an attempt to exert your frustrations upon a smaller, ie: helpless, being, due to the fact that attempting to due so on a bigger subject might not end as well as you would prefer.


Fri Jun 09, 2006 7:21 pm
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Quote:
A whole theory on omnipotence claims that a deity's 'Godhood' depends fully upon his/her follower's faith within them.

Well that brings me right back to your thoughts on how "it's folly to [dismiss all these silly claims about deities]".
Because NOW you're saying you think it's a bad idea to NOT believe in their existence... and by believing in them (not necessarily "worshipping" them, but only a half-step away from that), YOU are actually empowering the deity in question?

WTF? You feel obligated to give nonexistent things power?

Quote:
So, unless you were once 'God of Ants', then you have nothing to aspire towards by squashing them, except an attempt to exert your frustrations upon a smaller, ie: helpless, being, due to the fact that attempting to due so on a bigger subject might not end as well as you would prefer.

Wow, swing and a miss.

Not only did I not step on any ants on purpose yesterday, I was unaware and did not care at all whether I actually stepped on any ants yesterday. I also couldn't give a sh1t and a half what manner of temple they erect in my honor; in all likelihood I will continue to randomly and accidentally step on them, completely oblivious to their individual actions or attempts to "worship" me. THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT!


Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:42 am
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I pretty much regard anyone who thinks they have had communication with a diety or an alien species as a severely mentally ill individual.

Science at work for the common good.


Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:28 pm
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"severely mentally ill individual"

That sounds alot like the "satanic, misguided, and mentally ineffeciant" label applied by society to anyone whom wears alot of black, and has gothic-themed interests that are different from normal perceptions.
It's nice to see that people, whom are generally viewed as Outsiders, with nothing but negative aspects about themselves, are not as quick to judge, and cast uninformed, and closed-minded sentiments upon others, as our peers.


Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:51 pm
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Except that my assertion is most likely right on the mark. I'm not making a comment or judgement about a certain type of individual as you imply, I'm commenting on a behavior that defies all logic. If someone came up to you and kept saying, "I just got done riding my unicorn, and now I'm going to chat with the invisible gnome that sits on my head!" you would think they were completely and utterly batshit crazy.

Same difference.


Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:44 am
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Hey man, I'll fuck somebody up if they start talking about my gnome.


Nobody fucks with the gnome, nobody!

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Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:11 am
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dj_craig wrote:
Nobody fucks with the gnome, nobody!


But does anybody put gnomey in a corner?


Sun Jun 11, 2006 8:44 pm
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You can't make Dirty Dancing references on a Goth message board.

-100,000 Goth points.


Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:29 pm
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Quote:
You can't make Dirty Dancing references on a Goth message board.

-100,000 Goth points.


Which one was from DD? - The gnomey in a corner one?


PS - you have to get some points deducted for recognizing it.

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Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:14 pm
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