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 Am I missing something? 
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Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:14 pm
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Post Am I missing something?
So why 'gothling?' Does anyone call themselves 'goth' anymore? if they did wouldn't they be ridiculed? I went to hard mondays last week and i didn't really here any 'goth' punk music just techno. nothing very dark just bouncy and fun. Is that was passes as 'goth' now? How is that 'goth?'

Maybe these are annoying questions but i'm actually curious. I want to know what this group of people is all about. I sorta feel like i might have some common interests but there are some qestionable differences there too.

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Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:01 am
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Goth is dead.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:41 am
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I'm gonna guess that "gothling" is sort of a pun on "gosling" -- baby geese that follow their mama (or whatever they mistake for their mama, see <a href="http://experts.about.com/e/i/im/imprinting_(psychology).htm">fillial imprinting</a>) around and are awkward and fuzzy and kinda ugly-cute. Have you never heard of Hans Christian Andersen's fairytale <a href="http://www.andersen.sdu.dk/vaerk/hersholt/TheUglyDuckling_e.html">The Ugly Duckling</a>? It's worth reading, if you haven't.

As for whether "we" are "dark" enough for you, mm, guess you'll have to make that call. Anyone who calls themself a Goth ought to either have enough perspective to see the absurdity of doing so, or be pretty inexperienced and really needing that mother goose figure to follow after and learn about the world. Most of us, sadly, do not grow up to be swans.

In any case, hello. What it is exactly you were looking for in a club night? I fear you're going to find a LOT of techno in the dance nights available.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Am I missing something?
[sic] wrote:
So why 'gothling?' Does anyone call themselves 'goth' anymore? if they did wouldn't they be ridiculed? I went to hard mondays last week and i didn't really here any 'goth' punk music just techno. nothing very dark just bouncy and fun. Is that was passes as 'goth' now? How is that 'goth?' .


As a dj, I can say that the majority of "goth" dance nights are goth in an aesthetic, but not necessarily musical sense. Most straight up goth music is amazingly undanceable, and is more suited to long nights alone, sitting in one's bedroom. And having been to a few nights where only goth music was played, very few people were dancing, except for the few people doing the "waving hands about, spinning around" interpretive dance. That's why "Bela Lugosi's Dead" was a club staple for so long, as it is one of the rare goth songs you can dance to, as it is very rhythm oriented. The electronic music you heard is much more likely to get people to dance, and is of a "dark" variety, hence the appeal to the goths you saw.
And most people I know don't call themselves goth. They're usually just called that by other people, myself included.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:23 pm
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I'm not really goth myself. I'm much more a rivethead, musically, but I like the new wave and synthpop too. But if I limited myself to interacting with rivetheads online, I'd be on a forum with 6 members instead of here, and we wouldn't have much to talk about.
"Heard the latest X-Fusion album yet?" "Yup." "Cool."

Since all of the individual "dark" subgenres on their own are TINY (compared to the general populace), we all tend to consolidate into a meta-group. That, and we tend to have some overlaps on attitudes and musical taste. So here we are on a "goth" forum, keeping things lively for the 6 actual goth people who would've run out of things to talk about without us.
"Killed yourself yet?" "Nope." "Cool."


Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:30 pm
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P.S. "Hard" Mondays is more often than not a misnomer and shouldn't be considered "representative". Yes, it has its moments (as you can see from the playlists if you find them online), but also long periods of what would be considered "just plain trance" that is neither hard nor dark.

If you want hard (e.g. noise and industrial, with some periods of darkish psytrance), try Corrosion (Fridays at Ground Zero).

If you insist on a pure-goth club night, you'll have to start your own; I've never seen one in this state during my decade of clubbing.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:39 pm
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Uh oh. Here we go again with the "goth or not goth" chat.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Am I missing something?
[sic] wrote:
i didn't really here any 'goth' punk music just techno. nothing very dark just bouncy and fun. Is that was passes as 'goth' now? How is that 'goth?'


damn... is there an echo in here?

you're more likely to hear goth at any particular 80's night than at GZ or The Saloon. Lenin was trying to start a night, but it fell through for various and sundry reasons. But yeah, the goth scene here is more or less a bunch of "beep-bloop-beep" disco biscuit bullshit, with the rare show by autonomy, thosquanta, APOX, or the uber-rare show by Kontrol Panel, which is a great treat if you get to see them. On the up side, there is still a pretty damn good punk scene here, and some damn fine metal.

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Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:09 pm
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Great discussion!!
Yeah, the stuff is very 4/4 dance type music today. I understand the evolution of the music as I have been following it for quite sometime. Over the years the electronic aspect really has gone to the forefront. What really puzzles me is that somewhere down the line, the genre took a wrong turn and now modern day, popular "goth" music is basically commercial sounding trance music (with vocals). This stuff dominates the dance floor. I remember this one time, I was at this club and the floor was packed. The DJ played some VNV, some Covenant, a bit of Funker Vogt, and some Informatik. Then the DJ threw down a Haujobb track (awesome stuff) and the dance floor basically cleared. sad sad thing to see.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:14 pm
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Post Re: Am I missing something?
drok_vox wrote:
trying to make friends by ripping down the guy next to him again.


extracting the pissing-on-other-people's-work part, that's useful information.

maybe if you guys weren't such rude f*ckers you'd have more luck with those collaborative efforts like starting a dance night. Hope your head-cold is improving, D.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:34 pm
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There is no more Goth, punk or otherwise. The electronic stuff they're calling "goth" or - and I really hate this term - Neo-Goth, isn't goth at all. Goth was an offshoot of punk rock almost three decades ago. No matter how much the mall brats with their dreads and bad makeup and baggy, shitty-looking clothes want to think they're goth, they are most certainly not. The label was always kind of silly anyway.

I didn't name the site, Hypoxia did. It was really the only catchy, easy-to-remember darksideresque name available at the time.

I don't mind the music they play at the clubs, for the most part. At least it isn't hip hop. I wish the mixes were a bit more varied, going from synth pop to aggro industrial to metal and all the varying subgenres therein instead of what sounds like the same stuff over and over and over again, and I wish they would drop a lot of the older, incredibly overplayed stuff (it's time to retire Garbage for good...forever). I disagree with Haakon that goth rock isn't danceable. A lot of it actually is. And anything can be remixed. Hell, hasn't every single Sisters Of Mercy track been remixed a dozen times? There are even danceable Metal tunes, whether remixed or original recordings. I like a lot of different styles of music, mostly dark stuff, so when I hear the same genre over and over in a club it just melts into an incoherent hum after a while. All the DJs in this town could be a bit more varied, even the ones I really like.

I, however, do not dance. I like being around loud music, preferably music I like, and I like to drink. That's why I go to clubs. Oh, and seeing people I know is nice as well. I don't go to Zero anymore for two reasons; I hate what it has devolved into and I'd probably be kicked out for what I've said in the past about that place anyway. The people that operate and run the place are neither bright nor honorable, and the incidents that occurred against people I know were unconscionable. Unlike some individuals who care more about dancing and drinking than taking a stand for their friends, I have principles. I haven't been back to Zero since those incidents and that will not change. Nothing Zero has done has come close to warranting a change in my attitude. And as far as the cry that Zero is one of the few clubs that caters to our tastes, I think Drok said it best when he stated, "I'd rather starve than eat shit."

Hard Mondays is still a good time, however. The Saloon is a great bar. I almost always have fun when I attend. If I knew how to operate DJ equipment, I would do a guest stint there and play a much wider range of dark music that would appeal to a wider audience while still getting a number of people on the dance floor. Alas, I know nothing about operating DJ equipment. So, since I can't actively change the situation, I am resigned to being content with what is offerred without whining so much about it.


Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:37 pm
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
I disagree with Haakon that goth rock isn't danceable. A lot of it actually is. And anything can be remixed. Hell, hasn't every single Sisters Of Mercy track been remixed a dozen times?

Hard Mondays is still a good time, however. The Saloon is a great bar. I almost always have fun when I attend. If I knew how to operate DJ equipment, I would do a guest stint there and play a much wider range of dark music that would appeal to a wider audience while still getting a number of people on the dance floor. Alas, I know nothing about operating DJ equipment. So, since I can't actively change the situation, I am resigned to being content with what is offerred without whining so much about it.


Ah, I should be more specific. As goth developed in the 80s and early 90s (2nd and 3rd wave), the music became less an offshoot of punk, and the ethereal stuff took hold, making it largely undanceable. Yes, you can dance to some goth music, but you either need people who know how to dance to something which isn't just 4/4 beat, or you need to remix it to appeal to those people.

If you are ever interested in coming to a night more like you describe, I will tell you the next time I'm dj'ing. I agree, a lot of nights don't have much in the way of variety. That's why I like to have as much variety as possible, having been to clubs or raves where I heard what sounded like the same song for 3 hours. And also, operating dj'ing equipment is much easier than it looks. If you have a good ear for music, and what songs would go well together, you can dj.


Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:57 am
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I certainly wouldn't mind a trip out to see you Dj.


Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:14 am
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Post Re: Am I missing something?
alisgray wrote:
blah blah blah


well, it's not like I'm the only person to walk into any [insert scenester band name here] show and say "this is supposed to be goth? this sounds like b-sides from Front 242's Geography!"

EBM, future-pop, whatever you want to call it, has been manhandled and mutilated to the point of obscurity. I felt the same way about metal when Korn went ahead and ruined it a little over ten years ago.

I don't even hate electronica- I love trance, a lot of trip-hop, and, well...

why are you even busting my chops on this? you know I listen to everything. Is it because you feel I'm maligning your friends? Not really. I just think some of the people we know have questionable to horrific taste in music. That doesn't mean I think they're bad people. (I can't believe I have to say any of this, I feel like I'm writing for a college newspaper). I've had friends who played in craptastical white-boy reggae bands! I realize that I myself have dubious aural taste... If I had the time and equipment, damn right I'd be DJing too. and people would bitch

"Why the hell does he play that damn [pixies, betwixt, love and rockets, gang of four, buzzcocks] song every time he does a set? That's not goth"

The problem is that too many people believe that goth equates to cool, and vice-versa. I can say the same thing about punk, metal, whatever, but this is a goth board, and unless solicited for, I tend to keep my musical mindset in that realm.

Buckle your friggin seatbelts, ladies and germs- Being goth does not make something cool. Being cool does not make something goth. Geography is great album. It is inspired equally by the dark sounds of post-punk doom and gloom, just as much as it is the monolithic sounds of early techno. However, it's about as much a goth album as Van Halen III is blues.

Yes, rob has a point- there is no room for "purism" in the scene- however, the scene has become so entirely closed off to new blood that watching it wane away is like listening to an iron lung that's slowing down but wont turn off. i could couple this with a rant on general twin-cities scensterism, but there's a better time and place for that.

I'll stick to my guns- I don't like most of the music played at GZ, and only a little more played at Hard Mondays. Do I hate the DJs? No, I barely know them- Craig seems like a nice guy from the few times I've encountered him, and I really like Panic, and have worked with him in the past. Do I hate the people who like the music? FUCK NO!

Fer trent's sake, look at who my friends are... do I feel the need to agree with them about music, food, or literature to fit in with them? please... this isn't jr high. and to further that analogy... you can't feed me frozen pizza and tell me to call it gourmet italian just because it's the only thing there is.

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Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:25 am
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Well, some people would prefer we weren't as critical as we sometimes are. I am often critical precisely because I know that anyone could be extremely critical of me and the way I live my life. I get criticized quite regularly for the things I like, so I feel it's only fair to share my opinions about all the lame things you people are into. and I'll even add an internet wink at the end here, ;)

I don't like terms like goth, or even punk. I don't identify with them and I don't consider my identity to conform with some all-encompassing title. I am, quite simply, me. I like what I like. I haven't found many people who like all the things I'm into.

Okay, I'll be honest. I haven't found anybody that likes all the things I'm into, but that's part of what makes me so damn cool. I'm unique. I've figured out how to appreciate all these things that you people haven't been able to figure out how to like. The joke's on all of you. And I'm better than any of you.

Oh, and by the way; you're not the boss of me, either!


Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:26 am
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Post Re: Am I missing something?
[sic] wrote:
Does anyone call themselves 'goth' anymore?


and to answer this question- only MM, evanescence, and ICP.

goth is vocation for me, not evocation...

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Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:57 am
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Post Re: Am I missing something?
[sic] wrote:
So why 'gothling?' Does anyone call themselves 'goth' anymore? if they did wouldn't they be ridiculed? I went to hard mondays last week and i didn't really here any 'goth' punk music just techno. nothing very dark just bouncy and fun. Is that was passes as 'goth' now? How is that 'goth?'

Maybe these are annoying questions but i'm actually curious. I want to know what this group of people is all about. I sorta feel like i might have some common interests but there are some qestionable differences there too.


I don't really think there's any good answer or reply to your question (and by good I simply mean qualitative).

There were still goth dance nights in the US, up until the lates 90s. I think Nocturna in chicago is one of the only dance nights that still plays goth music.

The term became silly and phased out, and most club nights shifted to either some form of pop music, harsh ebm, power noise, or something inbetween (that makes no one happy). Now a days, you find very few people that want anything to do with the term "goth."


Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:21 pm
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
Hard Mondays is still a good time, however. The Saloon is a great bar. I almost always have fun when I attend. If I knew how to operate DJ equipment, I would do a guest stint there and play a much wider range of dark music that would appeal to a wider audience while still getting a number of people on the dance floor. Alas, I know nothing about operating DJ equipment. So, since I can't actively change the situation, I am resigned to being content with what is offerred without whining so much about it.


Everyone is a DJ.

A monkey could operate DJ equipment and do a fine job. I'm not joking, you should give it a try. If you can operate a cd palyer, you can use DJ equipment.

Also it might be worth noting, that I've been to club nights in other cities. Where all they use is 2 plain cd palyers, and it works just fine (aside from an occasional odd pause). The main thing you should be concerned about is your playlist


Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:26 pm
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Liighter wrote:
Everyone is a DJ.
A monkey could operate DJ equipment and do a fine job. I'm not joking, you should give it a try. If you can operate a cd palyer, you can use DJ equipment.

Also it might be worth noting, that I've been to club nights in other cities. Where all they use is 2 plain cd palyers, and it works just fine (aside from an occasional odd pause). The main thing you should be concerned about is your playlist


Being a MUSICIAN and an artist, I have come to distrust anyone with the letters "D "and" J" in front of their name ( a name that's about as inventive as the last nu metal band name I saw called "downgrind" )
Having been on both sides of the DJ booth, I have come to the conclusion thatbeing the DJ is an un-enviable position
When interacting with "the talent", they have about the same purpose as a soundman and that is to keep "the talent" in line
Which is to say that they make sure they don't get any bright ideas about doing anything that doesn't fit in with the club's established formula
All while constantly having to play the "keep people dancing" game
After all, more dancing means more thirsty people means more people buying overpriced drinks

Think being tthe DEEJAY is a great job?
Think again
They get shit on from above and below
All while playing the same fucking playlist every night and having snot nosed know it all's play armchair DJ on the message board the morning after
No thanks

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Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:42 pm
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Who thinks being a DJ is a great job? As a regular gig, it would suck (sorry, Craig). But one-off guest shots and occasional forays into forcing what you consider great music on the clubbing masses...yeah, that would be fun. Just once I'd love to get up there and like the great punk band Refused declare to the crowd, "WE DANCE TO ALL THE WRONG SONGS! AND ENJOY ALL THE WRONG MOVES!"

Anyway, aside from all the armchair Dj talk and Rockula once again trying to convince us all that he's a musician and an "artist," this whole goth thing is ridiculous. We all tend to have darker tastes in music, whether that means punk, shoegazer, Metal, ethereal, synth/futurepop, industrial, noise or what have you. And regardless of individual tastes, we all really dig music quite passionately, as opposed to the types who just like a song here and there on the radio.

A lot of us dress in black clothing, for whatever reason. Some even go overboard and dye their hair black. It's not enough for some to have dark tastes, they have to physically project how dark they are. we're a wacky bunch, but most of us are friendly.


Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:54 pm
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I didn't think i would spark such a long discusion. But this interests me. I like more aggressive music. I don't like pop or rap. I wear a lot of black. But i never thought i was "goth." I never wore make-up. I didn't try to offend anyone by saying i was suprised by the music at hard mondays. There was quite a bit i thought was pretty good. There was some stuff that just sounded a little top40ish. Like stuff on kdwb. I thought it would be all more aggressive stuff. But that's cool. Whatever your into. I enjoyed myself.

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Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:42 am
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Interesting discussion. I think the titles are funny. In the late 80's 90's I don't think it was ever about the music or the clothing. It was about who we were, how we lived, and more importantly how things made us feel. Like being told a secret you couldn't explain, but for some reason these people understood. The music happened to tap into that feeling we all had. Clothing was completely improvised. Some wore make-up some didn't. I would go to parties, and some would look like Robert Smith, others like Sid Vicous. Some were a cross between Peter Murphy and David Gahn & Martin Gore. Either way we all were the same. I think places like Hot Topic have ruined it a bit. It's the same as Ambercrombie and Fitch, but inverted. Designer label gothic clothing? Oh please...

Kind of lost where I was going, but for food for discussion. :)


Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:07 pm
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Epicentre wrote:
Interesting discussion. I think the titles are funny. In the late 80's 90's I don't think it was ever about the music or the clothing. It was about who we were, how we lived, and more importantly how things made us feel. Like being told a secret you couldn't explain, but for some reason these people understood. The music happened to tap into that feeling we all had. Clothing was completely improvised. Some wore make-up some didn't. I would go to parties, and some would look like Robert Smith, others like Sid Vicous. Some were a cross between Peter Murphy and David Gahn & Martin Gore. Either way we all were the same. I think places like Hot Topic have ruined it a bit. It's the same as Ambercrombie and Fitch, but inverted. Designer label gothic clothing? Oh please...

Kind of lost where I was going, but for food for discussion. :)


You may have lost your way, but you were on the right path. It's true. Years ago, there was much more improvisation as far as looks and music went. For those of us old enough, look at the pictures from 12-20 years ago. There was more variety, because people weren't being lumped into these narrow little categories. Down here, it wasn't punks or goths, it was "freaks." A lot of different types of people, all sampling from the various columns. Unfortunately, as soon as a group of people are rigidly defined, by the media mostly, those who come after buy more into the stereotypes. Nothing new really, that's always happened. But it is telling to look at what people at clubs and concerts looked like then, and what they look like now. The same goes for what they listen to. I'm rambling now too, but it's just rather depressing. And helps to show one of the reasons why it's much harder to find genuine oddities out there.


Tue Dec 19, 2006 2:45 am
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[sic] wrote:
I didn't try to offend anyone by saying i was suprised by the music at hard mondays. There was quite a bit i thought was pretty good. There was some stuff that just sounded a little top40ish. Like stuff on kdwb. I thought it would be all more aggressive stuff. But that's cool. Whatever your into. I enjoyed myself.



I don't think anyone was offended. I am one of the DJ's on Mondays (Although I wasn't there the night you are talking about) and I wasn't offended at all. One thing I will tell you is; if you want to hear something, please come on up and ask for it. We strongly encourage requests on Mondays and we try to be as accommodating as we can.

As far as the aggressive stompy stuff goes. I like it and play some of it on Mondays, but it just doesn't work as a music type to base a whole night around. Fridays at GZ have been doing it for over a year now and we still get more people on Mondays then they do on Fridays. I enjoy Fridays and go out when I can, but that's not very often and that's how, it seems, many people feel. When you can barely get 30 to a club on a Friday night with no cover it's pretty telling.

To be honest we tend to cater towards women on Mondays. We play music that women want to hear and will dance too (Not exclusively mind you, but we lean that way.) Bar marketing 101 says if you have a bar with lots of women in it men will follow, the opposite is not true.

DJing isn't as easy as some think, but I would be lying if I didn't say I enjoy it. I love DJing, hassles and all. You can never please everyone and some people will always be pissed off, but if you can please most people and try to make an atmosphere that people can have fun in that's about all you can do.

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Wed Dec 20, 2006 10:49 am
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dj_craig wrote:
As far as the aggressive stompy stuff goes. I like it and play some of it on Mondays, but it just doesn't work as a music type to base a whole night around. Fridays at GZ have been doing it for over a year now and we still get more people on Mondays then they do on Fridays. I enjoy Fridays and go out when I can, but that's not very often and that's how, it seems, many people feel. When you can barely get 30 to a club on a Friday night with no cover it's pretty telling.


I'm really confused about this statement.

First of all, most things considered stompy are just prog-trance with distorted vocals and more distortion on the kick (and possibly a snare which takes up the whole sound spectrum). Somethings like combichrist, I didn't find that much different or more exciting then a standard hard-house track. This does not necessarily mean I won't enjoy it, but that it's just fairly standard club music and not really that harsh.

There's many a club nights in other cities, based purely around stompy stuff. They work and get attendance with little to no problems.

Most of my friends stopped going to Corrosion because eventually they didn't find it that much different from any other club night in the city.


Wed Dec 20, 2006 1:54 pm
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Quote:

Does anyone call themselves 'goth' anymore?

Anyone who calls themself a Goth ought to either have enough perspective to see the absurdity of doing so, or be pretty inexperienced and really needing that mother goose figure to follow after and learn about the world.

And most people I know don't call themselves goth.

There is no more Goth


I think anyone here who knows me will tell you that I am goth. I am so goth, I'm sure none of you will deny it. I am probably more goth than anybody. Always have been, always will be.


Wed Dec 20, 2006 2:34 pm
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interesting to hear that the music at hard mondays is mostly geared towards women. it just solidifies my realization that i am the only woman in the state who wants to listen to/dance to/*only* hear harsh discordant sounds. heehee. i love being unique. all joking aside, i've stopped going to dance clubs [to <i>dance</i>] because of my preferences. i'm not complaining though. i assume it's easier to find things to do when your tastes aren't so rigid, and i know a LOT of people enjoy the club nights around here. as far as what "goth" means, i don't really care. i'm not goth. [the winning statement.] i figure most people think goth is synonymous with "darksider" these days. just a generic term to explain someone who likes the darker [aka less mainstream] things in life. as far as goth music-i don't listen to it. don't kick me off the board. i don't associate myself w/ being goth, *or* w/ being a darksider. though i had a man at my work call me one the other day. weird. i didn't know it was a term the general public even <i>knew</i>.


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dj_craig wrote:
As far as the aggressive stompy stuff goes. I like it and play some of it on Mondays, but it just doesn't work as a music type to base a whole night around. Fridays at GZ have been doing it for over a year now and we still get more people on Mondays then they do on Fridays. I enjoy Fridays and go out when I can, but that's not very often and that's how, it seems, many people feel. When you can barely get 30 to a club on a Friday night with no cover it's pretty telling.


i think the reason (or maybe my reason) people stopped going on Fridays was that they didnt stay true to what they said they would.. im going to corrosion to hear harder stuff, not she wants revenge or vhs or beta. so i dont think its the fact that they play only the harder stuff that guys like. its just that it turned into what everyone else was playing when they were supposed to be different. in the early days there were lots of people there.

ps: im not goth but everyone says i am.


Wed Dec 20, 2006 8:38 pm
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mzmelissa wrote:
ps: im not goth but [b] i do spend 3.56 hours putting my eyes on before i go out[b]


fixed for accuracy

j/k ;)

I only dressed goth on stage. I don't really think I dress any way, except for the mandatory black band shirts. Also, when I say that I idnetify with a particular genre, I'm not putting myself in a box- it's just part of my aesthetic, both as a consumer and producer of art- to me it's like identifying with roccocco, romantic, or classical, free jazz, be-bop, or anything else for that matter. What "makes me goth" is what happens when I sit down with a guitar or a sequencer, or when I start writing.

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Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:26 am
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Liighter wrote:

Most of my friends stopped going to Corrosion because eventually they didn't find it that much different from any other club night in the city.


mzmelissa wrote:

i think the reason (or maybe my reason) people stopped going on Fridays was that they didnt stay true to what they said they would.. im going to corrosion to hear harder stuff, not she wants revenge or vhs or beta. so i dont think its the fact that they play only the harder stuff that guys like. its just that it turned into what everyone else was playing when they were supposed to be different. in the early days there were lots of people there.

ps: im not goth but everyone says i am.


Interesting that you both feel this way. The only difference that I can tell between now and the "early days" is DJ Noise, they added him to the mix about a year ago. So you are both right in that there isn't harder stuff the whole time, Noise's sets are not really hard and stompy. But he only spins two 45 min sets, DJ DV8 and DJ Recloned both still play hard stuff the rest of the time during their sets. I know if you request really hard stuff they would play it for sure. I think if anything they have been getting away from it because they felt like it wasn't working. You would have to ask them to know for sure.

I also think "lots of people" is a relative term. Fridays have never really had lots of people for a Friday. All fans of GZ are just lucky that the owner hasn't had anything better to put in the club both Thursdays and Fridays. Any other club owner would have changed both of those nights months ago.

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Thu Dec 21, 2006 6:42 am
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And actually, I always foung the music on Thursdays and Saturdays to be boring and repetitive, with practically the same playlists every week. Fridays always had a different, edgier mix. I guess I can't understand why Friday at GZ is the least popular night. What the hell else are all the people doing on Friday that they're not doing Thursday and Saturday?

And as far as the requests go, I'm sure most people feel like, "Yeah, I could go up there and request one song and maybe it will get played eventually, but that isn't going to change the entire mix and make it more enjoyable. Maybe I should just make a page long list and present it to the DJ instead!"


Thu Dec 21, 2006 8:59 am
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woah, drop the eyeliner.. a couple points...

im not bashing Fridays whatsoever, im just saying why i stopped going. 2-45 minute sets of music i dont want to hear is alot for me (no offense to noise, i like SWR & VHS, i just dont want to hear it on fridays) and going back to back fridays & saturdays was just too much for me, so i had to make some hard life decisions.

i should clairfy.. "alot of people" equals about 10 out of the orignal 40 that used to go. so in relative terms, thats 'alot'.

it only takes me 10 minutes to put on my makeup ;) about as long as it took for all you other non-goth people to post on this goth board just now.


Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:25 am
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dj_craig wrote:
Any other club owner would have changed both of those nights months ago.


sshhh... if you say that too loud, you'll get kicked out...

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Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:12 pm
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aw. I'd have to say that both GCHE and ms. snowzombie are quite <strike>eccentric</strike> unique indeed.

[sic] might enjoy Fridays at GZ quite a bit. personally I like the empty thing going on there when I show up.

I do kinda miss the sauna-like experience of going from the main room of Corrosion to Element 27. That was fun. Generally I do prefer the atmosphere at the Saloon.


Thu Dec 21, 2006 11:33 pm
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i hope you guys know i was being facetious with my unique comment.

i might try out corrosion tonight, i haven't gone in so long. i always feel that the night is just one week away from extinction. i hope it makes it though and hope it goes back to it's orignal format. or even w/ e27 in the sanctuary again, that was neat.


Fri Dec 22, 2006 10:10 am
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Quote:
Does anyone call themselves 'goth' anymore?


I prefer abandoned factories instead of graveyards. Plus, I’m an old fart.

I really don’t remember it being anything other than a group of peeps who thrived on a dark vibe. Whether it was music, art, clubs, clothes, whatever, people were pulled together by a unique atmosphere more than being labeled “goth”.

Quote:
I went to hard mondays last week and i didn't really here any 'goth' punk music just techno. nothing very dark just bouncy and fun. Is that was passes as 'goth' now?


Well, it depends where you’re at these days. Out here they play a lot of darkcore nu-breaks from the UK on goth nights, like the track on this label:

http://www.myspace.com/viralbreaks (<-- clicky “Jack the Ripper”)

And being an old fart, it’s weird to be in a club on a darksider night and they play Depeche Mode, The Smiths, Human League, and stuff like that. Back in the 80s, that’s the kind of music you’d hear in a club like Tropix. So 20 years from now, I guess we’ll hear Brittany and Nickelback at Hard Mondays.. :P

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Interesting. Thanks for the link, Scorchtone.


Sat Dec 23, 2006 10:20 am
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... Its strangely comforting to know that you can disappear for three months and the first post that comes up on gothling is still someone bitching about how they are 'too gawth for gawths' and rants about playlists.

Love ya'll =)

Take care Minneapolis. I'll be back to drink your booze and generally make a fool of myself in a couple months. Not too long till I come back for good!

*smiles*


Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:52 pm
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hushpuppy wrote:
Take care Minneapolis. I'll be back to drink your booze and generally make a fool of myself in a couple months. Not too long till I come back for good!

*smiles*


good luck and be safe and all that!

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Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:29 pm
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Haakon wrote:
... having been to a few nights where only goth music was played, very few people were dancing...


Only a few were dancing? God forbid!
Seriously, why is it so important to keep everyone dancing in a bar? Especially on a "goth" night, ain't they supposed to be all depressed and stuff? I would think it would make more sense, at least financially, to fire the DJ, let people play whatever the hell they want, and fill the dancefloor with couches and tables:

Sad Gothsters + Depressing music + Comfortable seating = Increased alcohol consumption

Everyone wins!


Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:36 am
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Actually, +jamison+ might be on to something here...


Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:05 pm
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I always thought that the more dancing that went on, the ore alcahol consumption
That one requirement has to be the most frustrating aspect of being a DJ
Instead of people enjoying the music you play on their terms, you are judged on how many people are on the dance floor

Can anyone comment on this factor?
Does your cigar chomping club owner/boss sit there and glare at the dance floor commenting "You're not getting enough people to dance kid, earn your keep"

Personally, I hate dancing
Maybe it's because I look like Rob Halford when I try to dance (seriously)

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Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:01 pm
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i don't dance much, either. partly because of self-consciousness, partly because I rarely hear stuff that makes me want to get up and do it.

dancing people don't drink- which is why dance clubs charge cover, and generally at least 50% more for drinks. people at concerts don't drink as much either- again, cover and pricey drinks.

and it's not just "people" on the dance floor. as craig mentioned earlier- you want to put women on the dance floor. then guys come in to oggle them and buy them drinks.

^that's not me being sarcastic. that really is business strategy.

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Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:40 pm
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+jamison+ wrote:
Goth is dead.


Who killed Mr Moonlight?

By the Way, since a few of you were discussing the danceability of quote "true goth" songs, I heard one of our local DJs spin a very bad tance version of a of a THIS MORTAL COIL song. I think it was either "Fond Affections" or "Song of Siren"....even though I had been drinking, it was bad.


Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:41 pm
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drok_vox wrote:
and it's not just "people" on the dance floor. as craig mentioned earlier- you want to put women on the dance floor. then guys come in to oggle them and buy them drinks.

^that's not me being sarcastic. that really is business strategy.


You are correct sir.

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Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:44 pm
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dj_craig wrote:
drok_vox wrote:
and it's not just "people" on the dance floor. as craig mentioned earlier- you want to put women on the dance floor. then guys come in to oggle them and buy them drinks.

^that's not me being sarcastic. that really is business strategy.


You are correct sir.


yeah, I've worked in a few bars myself. live music is a GEAT way to lose money, let me tell you (none of my own, but I watched a club nearly tank from lack of management).

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A few factors a club owner will factor in:
dancing+people=people needing to drink=money
Dj=much less money than a band would cost. I've never known a dj, especially a goth/industrial dj who made much money at all. And there are usually dozens more "home dj's" willing to underbid the current dj, just so that they get a shot.
girls dancing=people needing drinks+guys hanging out to watch girls+guys buying drinks for girls=money

**********************************************
Now, as nice as the leisurely, people hang out idea sounds, I can't see that making much money at all. People would be spending time hanging out and talking, and not buying as many drinks. And can you imagine the sort of griping people would have for each other's choice of music? That's why dj's are the convenient whipping post. They get to make easy money for the club, try to cater to everyone's requests, and take the griping from all sides that they aren't doing a good enough job.


Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:00 am
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Obviously,guys tend to go to dance clubs for chicks
You don't usually hear guys (straight ones) talking about how excited they are that they get to go out and dance tonight

Since the point is established what a guy's motivation is, the real question is this
What activity produces more incidences where a guy can buy a chick a drink?

Dancing-
When a chick gets in "dance mode" they pretty much stay out there for a while
Most guys would never dream of suggesting that the female stop her blissed out activity in order to come get a drink (pay attention to the guy)
Any interruption of the female's activities carries with it enourmous pressure to earn said break in activity
Most guys just don't have the confidence or the smoothness to get the big payoff once they have gotten a chick to stop dancing
However, if she does stop dancing then she has proven that she has interest in you
I always wait until they take a break
I think we can all agree that it is hard to dialoge a chick while competing with dizzying lights and BOOM BOOM BOOM

Conversation at a table-
There's plenty of time in conversation to take healthy sips from your drink
Guys feel a little less pressure to perform because they have more attention focused on them with less pressure to compete with the blissed out dance floor activities
This will result in a more relaxed atmosphere and willingness of the guy to take the risk and invest 5 or 6 additional bucks in the pursuit (yes girls, we try to gague our investment against your willingness to let us see you naked later on)

Any women here care to comment on the more successful situation?
I realise you all have a code of silence on things like this in order to protect your advantage but this is for science
We promise not to use this information against you next time we see you at the dance club

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Mon Jan 01, 2007 1:17 pm
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When you say "later on" do you mean, later on that night or later on in general? Because the odds of getting a chick naked later on that night are pretty slim no matter how much she likes you. As a matter of fact, your odds are inversely proportional to how much she likes you...if she's well adjusted. If she's mental then none of this applies 99% of the time.

I'm not sure I can speak for other women on this but, one of the reasons I enjoy Ground Zero and the goth/fetish scene in general is that I can go to the club just to dance and not worry about being hit on or groped. I quit First Ave years ago because the after midnight crowd just gets super free with their hands and I don't appreciate it. I really appreciate the level of respect that you generally find with alternative lifestyles. And I totally heart the music.

I'd be way more impressed with a guy who approached me with a bottle of water and said, "I noticed you're dancing hard out there. I bet you're thirsty." Not one who acts like he's try trying to get me drunk and naked tonight.


Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:41 pm
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snapsnzips wrote:
I'd be way more impressed with a guy who approached me with a bottle of water and said, "I noticed you're dancing hard out there. I bet you're thirsty." Not one who acts like he's try trying to get me drunk and naked tonight.


I'd go more for the guy who approached you at the bar afterwards, and offered to buy you a water. No telling how many roofies are in the bottle of the guy who shows up with water.
Just saying.


Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:17 pm
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Haakon wrote:
Now, as nice as the leisurely, people hang out idea sounds, I can't see that making much money at all. People would be spending time hanging out and talking, and not buying as many drinks.


sorry man, but bars sell WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more drinks than clubs do- which is why the price mark-up at clubs is so high. my old boss owns a bar, a dance club, and a live music club. the dance club has double the capacity of the bar, is packed every thurs-fri-sat night, and barely makes any more money than the bar does- which means people at the bar are drinking almost twice as much as the people in the club.

the live music club has never made a ton of money, and generally never do much better than break-even. people slow down on the drinking when the bands are on. again, twice the capacity of the bar, and doesn't even make as much as the bar does, not even when the shows are sold out.

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Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:08 pm
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drok_vox wrote:
Haakon wrote:
Now, as nice as the leisurely, people hang out idea sounds, I can't see that making much money at all. People would be spending time hanging out and talking, and not buying as many drinks.


sorry man, but bars sell WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY more drinks than clubs do- which is why the price mark-up at clubs is so high. my old boss owns a bar, a dance club, and a live music club. the dance club has double the capacity of the bar, is packed every thurs-fri-sat night, and barely makes any more money than the bar does- which means people at the bar are drinking almost twice as much as the people in the club.

the live music club has never made a ton of money, and generally never do much better than break-even. people slow down on the drinking when the bands are on. again, twice the capacity of the bar, and doesn't even make as much as the bar does, not even when the shows are sold out.


I have as of yet to see a bar where I could sit, and easily talk to people, that made any money. The only ones that seem to are the ones that cram people in like sardines. Again, I was speaking to the idea of the goth club-as-spacious-lounge.


Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:13 am
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Haakon wrote:
I have as of yet to see a bar where I could sit, and easily talk to people, that made any money. The only ones that seem to are the ones that cram people in like sardines. Again, I was speaking to the idea of the goth club-as-spacious-lounge.


probably because you don't seek them out... I would highly recommend the muddy pig, for starters. nice space, great beer selection, employees have good taste in music. I miss the CC the way it used to be, the kitty kat club is super nice for chilling out in when bands aren't playing.

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Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:32 am
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drok_vox wrote:
Haakon wrote:
I have as of yet to see a bar where I could sit, and easily talk to people, that made any money. The only ones that seem to are the ones that cram people in like sardines. Again, I was speaking to the idea of the goth club-as-spacious-lounge.


probably because you don't seek them out... I would highly recommend the muddy pig, for starters. nice space, great beer selection, employees have good taste in music. I miss the CC the way it used to be, the kitty kat club is super nice for chilling out in when bands aren't playing.


My point being that they are rare enough that I would need to "seek them out." Granted, I have found a few in New Orleans, but they get by through people drinking 24-7.


Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:02 am
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Haakon wrote:

My point being that they are rare enough that I would need to "seek them out." Granted, I have found a few in New Orleans, but they get by through people drinking 24-7.


there are enough, but mostly they're neighborhood bars and dives, not exactly "destination spots" like clubs are.

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