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 Brainstorm 
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Post Brainstorm
So Theeris and I got to talking last night. It's amazing that Hard Mondays is a weekly event yet the only way to get as many people out as showed up last night is to call it "Goth Prom" instead of "Hard Mondays" once a year, even though it's essentially the same thing. Oh sure, it's difficult to commit to something on a weekly basis and it always sucks when you don't know of anyone else planning on showing up so you decide to stay home (I've been there on plenty of dead nights and it's kind of a drag). But why can't that many people show up more frequently than once a year?

It seemed funny to me when they chose to shut down Kobalt and decided to have a "Farewell Kobalt" party which managed to pack the entire place. If all those people had actually showed up on a semi regular basis, we might still have Kobalt as an option on Saturday nights.

So Theeris and I were throwing out ideas for a Prom-esque night, perhaps for Ground Zero, that would be in the fall (since Prom has the lock on Springtime). Yeah, we could do a Halloween thing but that seems cheesy and obvious and there usually is a Halloween themed night anyway. It doesn't bring in a lot of people, but it is what it is already. A Thanksgiving thing might be interesting, as it does fall on a Thursday. Hell even some goofy Pagan theme revolving around the Autumnal Equinox might be interesting. I don't know.

What other ideas spring to mind for you in the way of a annual or semiannual theme night relevant to the community. And yes, I realize GZ has its Rubber Ball, but that isn't nearly as big as Goth Prom. Itjust seems like we have to fool people with a catchy name and theme to get them to show up to something.

So what are some more ways with which we can fool them?


Tue May 13, 2008 6:45 pm
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Post Re: Brainstorm
devil wrote:
So Theeris and I got to talking last night. It's amazing that Hard Mondays is a weekly event yet the only way to get as many people out as showed up last night is to call it "Goth Prom" instead of "Hard Mondays" once a year, even though it's essentially the same thing. Oh sure, it's difficult to commit to something on a weekly basis and it always sucks when you don't know of anyone else planning on showing up so you decide to stay home (I've been there on plenty of dead nights and it's kind of a drag). But why can't that many people show up more frequently than once a year?

It seemed funny to me when they chose to shut down Kobalt and decided to have a "Farewell Kobalt" party which managed to pack the entire place. If all those people had actually showed up on a semi regular basis, we might still have Kobalt as an option on Saturday nights.

So Theeris and I were throwing out ideas for a Prom-esque night, perhaps for Ground Zero, that would be in the fall (since Prom has the lock on Springtime). Yeah, we could do a Halloween thing but that seems cheesy and obvious and there usually is a Halloween themed night anyway. It doesn't bring in a lot of people, but it is what it is already. A Thanksgiving thing might be interesting, as it does fall on a Thursday. Hell even some goofy Pagan theme revolving around the Autumnal Equinox might be interesting. I don't know.

What other ideas spring to mind for you in the way of a annual or semiannual theme night relevant to the community. And yes, I realize GZ has its Rubber Ball, but that isn't nearly as big as Goth Prom. Itjust seems like we have to fool people with a catchy name and theme to get them to show up to something.

So what are some more ways with which we can fool them?


I agree, it would be fantastic if we had a couple more big EVENT events.

I might even be able to participate in brainstorming once i've recovered from Prom

That might be a month or so ;-/

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Tue May 13, 2008 7:09 pm
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Or if "Hard" Monday was a monthly event.
Seriously; most medium to big-sized cities only have a goth night once a month, rather than three every week.

Or, alternate between "Hard" Monday and "Soft" Monday: odd dates you play hard industrial, noise, EBM, etc; and even dates you play gothereal, synthpop, and psytrance. Rather than trying to half-assedly satisfy everybody every week and FAILING, have a more focused target audience and cater exclusively to them, but less often.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, artificial shortages to increase demand, yadda yadda.


Wed May 14, 2008 12:01 am
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More theme nights. Once a month, promote some theme: Rock-a-billy, vampires, the color blue, rings, pigtails.
Drink specials.
Code words for prizes.
Collectible promotion pieces: Goth character cards. 'Tender personality cards.
<a href="http://www.thedevilspanties.com/d/20080415.html">Goth Club Bingo.</a>

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Wed May 14, 2008 1:14 am
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i was going to say what rskm said.
i think a monthly night would do better, the concentration of people would be higher. going somewhere week after week w/ the same 10 people gets old. i know, i did that for a long time.
i'm thinking something along the lines of release the bats, [releasethebats.net], they seem to have success & it's just once a month.


Wed May 14, 2008 1:08 pm
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I like the idea of monthly theme nights. If someone does monthly events, it works well to tie them in to existing events. GZ does Halloween tied in to Bondage-a-go-go, Goth Prom is tied in to Hard Mondays. This has a lot of advantages, the largest being the venue is already prepped and staffed.

HM pulls a good crowd. Stop in some Monday after 11 (preferably NOT the Monday directly after prom) and you'll see a decent crowd. Fridays at GZ for the Next Element are doing fairly well too. Bolstering an existing night with a large event helps both the event and the night.


Wed May 14, 2008 1:20 pm
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That's what I admire about The Next Element night is the variety of events they come up with: Guest DJ's, acrobats, burlesques, fashion shows.
Something like that could possibly work on a smaller scale at HM.
It's not just a matter of ideas, it's also a matter of finding people who want to take up this project, just as the guys who run TNE did.

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Wed May 14, 2008 1:53 pm
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Theme nights is exactly what Kobalt used to be. Skaht and Craig played music around that theme, and they decorated the VIP Lounge to match... and they did it every week. I miss those days.

Honestly, I think the best decision anybody at GZ has made in a long time is bringing on those guys for The Next Element.


Wed May 14, 2008 2:25 pm
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rskm1 wrote:
...alternate between "Hard" Monday and "Soft" Monday: odd dates you play hard industrial, noise, EBM, etc; and even dates you play gothereal, synthpop, and psytrance.


I love this idea! Although I can already imagine the complaints it would receive. ("you've got your synthpop in my peanut butter!")


Wed May 14, 2008 10:01 pm
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So if you're all for "THEME NIGHTS," and think that's the way to draw a massive crowd, what are the best themes to pursue, that YOU think would bring in a lot of people?



*Remember, if the theme nights you suggest are ultimately used and not many people show up, we get to bind you, gag you, suspend you by your eyelids and throw poison darts at your genitals.


Wed May 14, 2008 10:03 pm
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Mmm, poison darts.


Wed May 14, 2008 10:26 pm
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Then I retract my suggestion of Rock-a-Billy. No way do I want to see that actually happen.

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Wed May 14, 2008 11:07 pm
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devil wrote:
... bind you, gag you, suspend you by your eyelids and throw poison darts at your genitals.

Aaaaaand, we've got our first theme idea, and our first scapegoat if it doesn't draw!


Thu May 15, 2008 12:17 am
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I think we should do it at club underground, monthly, and have DJs who are not the usual suspects...

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Fri May 16, 2008 9:11 am
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drok wrote:
I think we should do it at club underground, monthly, and have DJs who are not the usual suspects...


thats a great idea.. i 2nd it.


Fri May 16, 2008 9:17 am
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I think that if you want to be an iconoclast, you shouldn't wait for "we" but go start doing it yourself.


Fri May 16, 2008 9:24 am
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drok wrote:
I think we should do it at club underground, monthly, and have DJs who are not the usual suspects...


I really like that idea... and that space.

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Fri May 16, 2008 9:38 am
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veinsplasher wrote:
I really like that idea... and that space.


Me too. One of the best ideas I've heard in a while, actually.


Sat May 17, 2008 10:13 pm
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'twas vermin and juliet initially.

I'd be happy to help organize.

can any of you myspacers contact josh? http://www.myspace.com/audiopoplexy

I was thinking a friday close toward the end of june...

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Sun May 18, 2008 4:30 pm
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If you guys are thinking about doing it on a Friday I offer up TNE as a possible spot. We can accommodate up to two guest DJ’s or a guest DJ and a band, we can do themes and we can decorate the room however we want. We have been given total freedom for the night every Friday. (We are booked through July 4th though)

I know the underground is a nice room, it’s small which makes it easier to fill, and it's not GZ which some people have an issue with but…

This thread was started with Devil talking about why nights aren’t busy on a regular basis (which is something I’ve thought about on a very regular basis.) Rob brings up the point that maybe we just have too many nights in this town, he’s correct when he says most towns our size only have a monthly thing going. Then as a possible solution people wanting to start another new night? So instead of having two weekly nights and a Friday that is dark side about least once a month. We will have two weekly nights and a monthly night and a Friday that has one or two nights a month.

The reason markets do a monthly night is because their scene can't support a weekly night, I know many DJ's in other markets they would all rather be doing a weekly night if they could. Since they can't, they do a monthly and it's pretty busy since that is the only night during the month people in the scene can go out. Here we already have two weekly nights (and some Fridays), people in the scene can go out any time they want. So if a new night is started it's just going to add to the problem, not help solve it, even if it is monthly.

I'm not sayin, I'm just sayin

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Mon May 19, 2008 7:55 am
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rskm1 wrote:
Or if "Hard" Monday was a monthly event.
Seriously; most medium to big-sized cities only have a goth night once a month, rather than three every week.

Or, alternate between "Hard" Monday and "Soft" Monday: odd dates you play hard industrial, noise, EBM, etc; and even dates you play gothereal, synthpop, and psytrance. Rather than trying to half-assedly satisfy everybody every week and FAILING, have a more focused target audience and cater exclusively to them, but less often.

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, artificial shortages to increase demand, yadda yadda.


This is something Matthew and I have talked about. The hard part is what do you do when all the synthpop people are their on the crunchy night, or the electro pop people show up on the synthpop night. When you're dealing with a Monday you have to play to the people who are actually there.

Mondays are actually still quite successful. Yes we have a clunker night once a month or so (sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the time of year) We usually try to find what the crowd on a particular night seems to be digging and then lean that direction.

Not to say having regular theme nights isn't out of the question.

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Mon May 19, 2008 8:21 am
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dj_craig wrote:
This thread was started with Devil talking about why nights aren’t busy on a regular basis (which is something I’ve thought about on a very regular basis.) Rob brings up the point that maybe we just have too many nights in this town, he’s correct when he says most towns our size only have a monthly thing going. Then as a possible solution people wanting to start another new night? So instead of having two weekly nights and a Friday that is dark side about least once a month. We will have two weekly nights and a monthly night and a Friday that has one or two nights a month.


I was thinking the same thing. Why isn't the discussion leaning on ramping up an existing night? Spreading the toppings thinner once a month doesn't make a better pizza.


Edit: That has to be the worst analogy I've come up with in a long time.


Mon May 19, 2008 8:30 am
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I think it mostly has to do with the DJs. Don't get me wrong, I love Craig to death, but I often feel he relies too heavily on outdated material from the Nineties and doesn't play the newer more cutting edge stuff. Plus he's not as into stompy as he is poppy. I know a lot of people who wish "Hard" Mondays was considerably "Harder."

That being said, he's the type of DJ who caters to "requests." And I'm not sure that's such a good thing. I've seen the request lists and they're typically comprised of outdated, poppy crap. People still request "Closer" from NIN on a regular basis. Ugh. I love NIN more than most anyone on the board but if I never heard closer in a club again I'd be satisfied.

I think it's more a resonse to the fact that we're a little tired of what we've been given and don't feel as though it's fixable. I'd like to see HM and GZ be wildly successful on a regular basis I just think we need new DJ blood and better theme ideas on a regular basis.


Mon May 19, 2008 8:43 am
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devil wrote:
Don't get me wrong


Too late.

devil wrote:
That being said, he's the type of DJ who caters to "requests." And I'm not sure that's such a good thing.


See... that's not a bad thing. Requests are good. Also, at Goth Prom there was no request list, putz. It has been more and more scarce recently. The DJ probably has a better feel for who's on the dance floor than a smelly old scrooge like yourself.

I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm in a mood.


Mon May 19, 2008 8:48 am
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devil wrote:
I think it mostly has to do with the DJs. Don't get me wrong, I love Craig to death, but I often feel he relies too heavily on outdated material from the Nineties and doesn't play the newer more cutting edge stuff. Plus he's not as into stompy as he is poppy. I know a lot of people who wish "Hard" Mondays was considerably "Harder."

That being said, he's the type of DJ who caters to "requests." And I'm not sure that's such a good thing. I've seen the request lists and they're typically comprised of outdated, poppy crap. People still request "Closer" from NIN on a regular basis. Ugh. I love NIN more than most anyone on the board but if I never heard closer in a club again I'd be satisfied.

I think it's more a resonse to the fact that we're a little tired of what we've been given and don't feel as though it's fixable. I'd like to see HM and GZ be wildly successful on a regular basis I just think we need new DJ blood and better theme ideas on a regular basis.


You're points about requests are quite true sometimes. Unfortunetly that's what I have to deal with. (PS Goth Prom is the only Monday of the year we will play Closer)

That said, new DJ's and sound is one of the big advantages of TNE. Heck we've had 13 different DJ's and 10 different bands so far and we only started Feb 8th. If anyone has DJ's they want to hear let us know we are more then happy to talk to anyone. That said we do have some professional standards and we want to bring in people that have a draw. If someone has a big draw we will bring them back. We've had two DJ's back and one of them is booked for a third time already.

Most of the talk in this thread is exactly why we started The Next Element.

Different themes - check
New DJ's - check
Bands - check
Different musical styles - check
Full control over decorations and room - check
Drink specials - check
Ability to have input in the night - check

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Last edited by dj_craig on Mon May 19, 2008 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.



Mon May 19, 2008 9:04 am
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So is it a matter of better/stronger promotion to reach a wider/bigger audience? There's only so much that myspace/DTC/titty ads in the CP can do.

P.S. It's GZ's city pages ads that make me want to *not* go. Thanks TNE for not stooping to that level. Yet.

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:14 am
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I'll pass on TNE, and it has nothing to do with any "personal vendetta" against the venue, despite what some will tell you. I just think that a different venue will give us the freedom to put together a really different night.

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:18 am
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ahh, do something new and cool and listen to people bitch.

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:27 am
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thosquanta wrote:
ahh, do something new and cool and listen to people bitch.


Same as it ever was

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:27 am
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dj_craig wrote:
thosquanta wrote:
ahh, do something new and cool and listen to people bitch.


Same as it ever was


yup

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:33 am
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maybe its time to bring back my comic...

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:39 am
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thosquanta wrote:
maybe its time to bring back my comic...


It's always time for a comic.


Mon May 19, 2008 9:40 am
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i have no remote access to Delores, so i can't post it while i'm at work...

maybe i should do a new one tho.

making fun of drok is always fun, AND i already have him in comic form!

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:57 am
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ClubUG has nowhere to dance (safely =), but it'd make a good hangout for chatting and drinking and listening to some background music. Better than the CC Club, which always seems too loud (the din, not the music) and crowded every time I've been there.

Also, it seems like pretty much any night except Saturday is doomed to fail, just because most people don't seem to want to go out any night except Saturday.

The Next Element seems to have overcome this obstacle with a constantly-rotating crowd, rather than the core of "regulars" that keep most nights alive. People will pick and choose the nights they attend, which makes it less of a "regular" weekly event; you actually MISS something if you don't go, because it won't be "same-ol' same-ol'" the following week. (and yeah, that means it takes a SH1TLOAD more effort than just showing up every week with the same old binderful of CDs. So PROPS!!)

dj_craig wrote:
If anyone has DJ's they want to hear let us know we are more then happy to talk to anyone.

Fvck yeah, Monstergott!!!
And dv8, obviously.

But really, I don't care who's spinning or whether they know a crossfade from a beatmatch, as long as they play some decent friggin' songs that aren't the same ones as the week before.
Go ahead and play the same artists from the usual labels (SPV, Metropolis, ADiffDrum, etc etc), but venture into their new tracks, or dig deeper into their old albums occasionally! I am SO sick of hearing the same Wolfsheim and Beborn Beton song over and over; those acts have DOZENS of albums between them!
Maybe the stagnant zombies who keep requesting the one lousy song they know, will find some new favorites if you play an ALTERNATE song by the artist they asked to hear!


Mon May 19, 2008 2:27 pm
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rskm1 wrote:
ClubUG has nowhere to dance (safely =)


Depends on how the chairs are arranged... and whether any band gear is parked around the stage.

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Mon May 19, 2008 2:38 pm
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Thanks for the props

rskm1 wrote:
Fvck yeah, Monstergott!!!
And dv8, obviously.


I don't know Monstergott, would dv8 or noise know him?


I think we are going to pull in dv8 this week BTW.

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Mon May 19, 2008 3:16 pm
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dj_craig wrote:
I don't know Monstergott, would dv8 or noise know him?

Maybe; he spun at that short-lived bondage-night Wednesday up in Anoka, and semi-regularly visits GZ.
He's the scary one in this picture (thx to gothaminserenia).
...err, I should say "the scary one on the right", LOL.

And to make sure Friday doesn't morph back into Corrosion, maybe a synthpop-centric set from Kazmyr/Stryfe in there somewhere?


Mon May 19, 2008 4:29 pm
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rskm1 wrote:
dj_craig wrote:
I don't know Monstergott, would dv8 or noise know him?

Maybe; he spun at that short-lived bondage-night Wednesday up in Anoka, and semi-regularly visits GZ.
He's the scary one in this picture (thx to gothaminserenia).
...err, I should say "the scary one on the right", LOL.

And to make sure Friday doesn't morph back into Corrosion, maybe a synthpop-centric set from Kazmyr/Stryfe in there somewhere?


Thanks

With the amount of Breaks, Trance, House and Techno DJ's we have lined up over the next few weeks/months we have no worries about a corrosion morphing

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Mon May 19, 2008 4:34 pm
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dj_craig wrote:
... we have no worries about a corrosion morphing

Awwwww bummer 8-(.

;-) Yeah, yeah, I know, just me showing up every week isn't enough to keep a night going (as Industrial Strength Sundays and Corrosion (R.I.P.) will attest), so you gotta cater to other sensibilities.


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rskm1 wrote:
...err, I should say "the scary one on the right", LOL.


i was gonna say....i think ricky is the scary one in that group.

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Mon May 19, 2008 4:45 pm
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I repeat... can any of you myspacers get ahold of josh ?

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Mon May 19, 2008 5:42 pm
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I could contact Josh. But I have no idea about what to say.

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manna_panna wrote:
I could contact Josh. But I have no idea about what to say.


I'll shoot you a PM tomorrow... (thanks)

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Mon May 19, 2008 8:11 pm
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Post Re: Brainstorm
devil wrote:
yet the only way to get as many people out as showed up last night is to call it "Goth Prom" instead of "Hard Mondays"


We coulda called it "Marilyn Manson"... that mighta worked. That opens up some other obligations, though.

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Mon May 19, 2008 8:28 pm
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rskm1 wrote:
Also, it seems like pretty much any night except Saturday is doomed to fail, just because most people don't seem to want to go out any night except Saturday.


This pretty much seems to be the case, although Thursdays used to bring out as big a crowd as Saturdays did.

Tuesdays have always worked for 3Rock. That place always packs them in week after week. Mondays seem to be a challenge for some people even though they're all rested up from the weekend. No one ever mentions Wednesdays and why Fridays aren't always HUGE nights has always surprised the hell out of me. Sundays are never even brought up.

I have yet to check out TNE but revolving DJs and occasionally bands seems to be a great idea that worked well when Charles was doing ElektroTank. I think the only reason why it "tanked" was that most people here have a fear of that other Twin City.


Mon May 19, 2008 8:56 pm
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hell, i played electrotank a couple times, and i'm STILL scared of st paul.

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Mon May 19, 2008 9:05 pm
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thosquanta wrote:
hell, i played electrotank a couple times, and i'm STILL scared of st paul.


I got a Thosquanta T-shirt at one of those gigs. Still waiting for the Electrotank shirt Charles promised.

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Mon May 19, 2008 10:25 pm
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St. Paul isn't scary, it's just boring and dirty. And boring.

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Mon May 19, 2008 10:33 pm
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Dirty, perhaps. But there's plenty that goes on in Saint Paul. Not much of it gets advertised here because a lot of it doesn't pertain to our particular tastes. And every time interesting things do occur that pertain to our tastes we avoid it like it's a plague-filled pastry because it's St. Paul. Which, in spite of being right next to Minneapolis, is apparently too far away. Or something.


Mon May 19, 2008 10:58 pm
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devil wrote:
Dirty St. Paul is apparently too far away. Or something.


Says the man who won't come up to drink at Barley John's with me.

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Mon May 19, 2008 11:33 pm
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When did I ever say I wouldn't?


Mon May 19, 2008 11:42 pm
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I brought it up and you started whining, "why the hell would I go up there?"

I guess only pre-op sarcastic advice-columnists can convince you to come up to the cities. ;)

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Mon May 19, 2008 11:48 pm
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"Up to the Cities?!"

I'm in the Cities. I live 8 miles south of Minneapolis.


Tue May 20, 2008 12:00 am
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You *were* whining.

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Tue May 20, 2008 12:06 am
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I don't whine.



UNLESS I'm discussing why people don't seem to want to venture out to the clubs on a regular basis *ahem* *cough"BackOnTopic"cough*

So why is that? Tell me why you're not a "regular" at HM or TNE or BAGG or any other acronym in the Twin Cities...


Tue May 20, 2008 12:13 am
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Minneapolis is too far away! ha!

Really, lately it's been because of the school schedule. Now that's out of the way, I'm trying to work a few things into my sparse entertainment budget. I really miss Transmission and Hard Mondays. I've been wanting to check out TNE since it started, too.
As far as becoming a regular, that takes time. And money.

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Tue May 20, 2008 12:59 am
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I think a big reason events like Prom are so busy and ‘regular’ nights aren’t is because of age. At Prom EVERYONE comes out, at least half of the people there are over 30. These people have regular jobs, kids, families; it takes baby sitters and coordination to go out (especially on a week night.) It also takes money that many of these people have other things in their life that have a higher priority to spend money on.

If these people do go out on a regular basis they usually do it only one day a week – Saturday is the easiest day usually. There just aren’t enough 18 – 25somethings in the scene to make other regular nights packed. (Which is also why we have to be aware of and somewhat cater to the gay crowd on Mondays, they are a nice supplement to the night)

Big events are things that everyone can look forward to going out to. They are only a few times a year (Halloween, NYE, Prom, Rubberball) so it makes it much easier to do. They also know they can go and see everyone in the scene, have a good time, relive their glory days, then go back to their normal schedule for the next 6 months.

I don't really see away around this.

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Tue May 20, 2008 9:13 am
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dj_craig wrote:
I don't really see away around this.


So your question is "How do I get more 18-25somthings?"; Not "How do I have more big events?"


Tue May 20, 2008 9:25 am
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skywayman wrote:
dj_craig wrote:
I don't really see away around this.


So your question is "How do I get more 18-25somthings?"; Not "How do I have more big events?"


BINGO


Which is why we are not just going for the 18-25somethings in the scene for TNE. Expanding outside the scene seems like the only answer IMO

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Tue May 20, 2008 9:28 am
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devil wrote:

So why is that? Tell me why you're not a "regular" at HM or TNE or BAGG or any other acronym in the Twin Cities...


HM- boring music

TNE- GZ + boring music

BAGG- see above

I miss hitting Jag on wed night... too tight a work schedule right now.

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