View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:27 pm



Reply to topic  [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
 Brainstorm 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post 
uhh...the lineups and music at TNE have been incredibly varied and interesting.

its only boring because they dont like you, isnt it?

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Tue May 20, 2008 6:15 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Minneapolis
Post 
I have an idea - create a business plan, acquire financing, purchase a venue, apply for a liquor license, and implement your idea. If people like it you'll make money. If not, you'll go broke. I have two friends that did just that, and both places have been highly successful.

If all you're looking for is a place to throw a recurring party, find a location, get the appropriate event licensing, hire a <a href='http://www.dakota.lib.mn.us/NR/rdonlyres/00001ec7/sibnznwdimzldppikwxqawgtfjrkqjoc/MinnesotaLicensedCaterers.pdf' target='_blank'>catering</a> company with an on-sale liquor license, purchase <a href='http://csicoverage.com/entertainment/events.htm?gclid=CPnFkOGgtpMCFQ-1IgodHiH8CA' target='_blank'>special event insurance</a>, etc.

What you should not do is expect that an existing business owner should take the financial risk for your idea without a track record of successfully promoting that type of event in the past.

...or you could just complain about how much better things would be if everyone used your ideas...

_________________
Its all because of the Humans...


Last edited by JeffAlso on Tue May 20, 2008 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue May 20, 2008 7:20 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:12 pm
Posts: 4274
Location: pyramids of mars
Post 
thosquanta wrote:
uhh...the lineups and music at TNE have been incredibly varied and interesting.


not so much up my alley.

JeffAlso wrote:
What you should not do is expect that an existing business owner should take the financial risk for your idea without a track record of successfully promoting that type of event in the past.


actually, I do have a good track record of booking and promoting events. So does billy, who I plan on enlisting.

_________________
Rockula! wrote:
Whooda thought that you could get supress a guy's urge kick someones ass by waving pussy in his face?


Tue May 20, 2008 7:23 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Minneapolis
Post 
drok wrote:
actually, I do have a good track record of booking and promoting events. So does billy, who I plan on enlisting.

If you can find a place willing to take the risk on another darksider themed event, a recurring event at that, then by all means go for it.

Honestly though, you should realize that most people aren't going to go out any more than they already do. People aren't going to have more money to spend. The darksider scene is aging, and there aren't as many young people entering the scene as there are veterans retiring from it. Diluting it's patronage across yet another club night just doesn't make much sense.

_________________
Its all because of the Humans...


Tue May 20, 2008 8:01 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:12 pm
Posts: 4274
Location: pyramids of mars
Post 
JeffAlso wrote:
drok wrote:
actually, I do have a good track record of booking and promoting events. So does billy, who I plan on enlisting.

If you can find a place willing to take the risk on another darksider themed event, a recurring event at that, then by all means go for it.

Honestly though, you should realize that most people aren't going to go out any more than they already do. People aren't going to have more money to spend. The darksider scene is aging, and there aren't as many young people entering the scene as there are veterans retiring from it. Diluting it's patronage across yet another club night just doesn't make much sense.


I disagree. I think that too many people have been alienated from the electronica themed nights that are in place, and I think something that tipped the balance back the other way (like 80% rock, 20% electro) would do well.

_________________
Rockula! wrote:
Whooda thought that you could get supress a guy's urge kick someones ass by waving pussy in his face?


Tue May 20, 2008 8:22 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post 
thosquanta is 50% rock 50% electro 50% awesome.


also, we are half shark, alligator, half man.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Tue May 20, 2008 8:34 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Minneapolis
Post 
Are we still talking about a darksider themed night? You say 'rock', but that term is overly ambiguous. What exactly do you mean?

If you're talking about a recurring event that plays old-school Bauhaus, Christian Death, Killing Joke, Alien Sex Fiend, Specimen, etc. then you can definitely count me in, thats what I grew up on. Unfortunately, I don't see this succeeding any more than a once or twice a year for the reasons already discussed. I could be wrong though.

_________________
Its all because of the Humans...


Tue May 20, 2008 8:53 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:12 pm
Posts: 4274
Location: pyramids of mars
Post 
JeffAlso wrote:
Are we still talking about a darksider themed night? You say 'rock', but that term is overly ambiguous. What exactly do you mean?

If you're talking about a recurring event that plays old-school Bauhaus, Christian Death, Killing Joke, Alien Sex Fiend, Specimen, etc. then you can definitely count me in, thats what I grew up on. Unfortunately, I don't see this succeeding any more than a once or twice a year for the reasons already discussed. I could be wrong though.


for starters. there's contemp stuff too... QotSA, Kaiser Chiefs, the killers, Interpol all spring to mind. Strapping Young Lad still kicks it pretty good. If I were spinning a set, it would be from 30 years' worth of material...

_________________
Rockula! wrote:
Whooda thought that you could get supress a guy's urge kick someones ass by waving pussy in his face?


Tue May 20, 2008 9:17 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post 
Strapping Young Lad is no more. Devin is committed to family and won't tour anymore. He's primarily recording albums solely under the name "Devin Townsend" now.

He may change his mind and get the itch again, but it's been a couple years now.

I'm not convinced Rock would work. By and large people go to clubs to hear loud music that inspires them to dance to the hard beats. If people just wanted to shout over Rock music, they'd be at the CC or 3Rock, etc. Rock+Clubs=Failure, unless you're talking about live music. Even then, it's about building a <i>venue</i>'s reputation. Places like 3Rock or Lee's Liquor Lounge or the Cabooze have a loyal following that appreciates the venue and keeps coming back for that reason alone. Trying to turn a Ground Zero into a Rock club would be more disastrous than anything they've done in the past decade.

I think another club night would be a huge mistake for any venue. <i>However</i>, the idea of a <i>monthly</i> event...no wait, scratch that. Why make it predictable? Every so often announce that there's going to be a night at, let's say Club UG (by way of example - you still have to convince the venue to go along with it...a long shot). Come up with a catchy title for the night. Promote the fuck out of it and make it something people would actually be interested in. If that means prizes and contests, so be it. Whatever gets the "older crowd" to "hire the babysitters." Make it viral. Make it cool. If it only happens every six or seven weeks, or even every two and a half months, make a name <i>for the name</i>. Create a legend. Even when I was holding weekly Gothling Coffee gatherings five or so years ago we couldn't get people to just show up and talk on a regular basis. Many weeks consisted of skywayman, ladygaia and me sitting at a coffee shop staring into our tea, hoping someone else would show up.

People can't even commit to a weekly <i>TV Show</i> these days for chrissakes. They Tivo that shit and watch it when they have time.

If something's going to be successful it has to be less predictable, somewhat adventurous, rewarding for the patron and it has to have a build-up like you wouldn't fucking believe.


Tue May 20, 2008 10:53 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post 
The point is, people are jaded. They want to have a good time but what the clubs are offering on a regular basis is tired. They're not even playing cutting edge, underground music anymore. They're playing the same tired tunes we heard at the clubs years ago. And when they open it up to "requests" they make it worse because that allows people to fall back on familiarity instead of something new and adventurous. Familiarity loses its appeal quicker than anything.


Tue May 20, 2008 10:57 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Minneapolis
Post 
Yet somehow Zero has been open for over 14 years, while most other darksider events over the years have failed miserably. Why?

The size and state of the current darksider scene is no longer capable of sustaining events by itself. It hasn't for a long time. In order for an event to be successful it needs at least one of two additional elements - tourists or alumni.

The reason that Goth Prom and Rubber Ball are highly successful events are that they bring in the alumni, the old regulars from the scene that only make it out for well known special occasions, often only once or twice a year. The reason that BAGG has been successful for so many years as a weekly event is that tourists come out to see the show, and pay the bills in the process.

The problem with hosting an event at a venue other than Zero or the Saloon is that it won't likely draw the interest of tourists or alumni in sufficient numbers to keep the event going. If enough do show up to make the event profitable, they aren't going to be requesting cutting edge music, they are going to want to hear what many people here would consider the tired old stuff.

The way I see it, the only way for a new darksider event to succeed is for it to not be a darksider event.

_________________
Its all because of the Humans...


Wed May 21, 2008 12:35 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post 
JeffAlso wrote:
Yet somehow Zero has been open for over 14 years, while most other darksider events over the years have failed miserably. Why?


Good question. I've wondered how they've managed to stay open with so many stagnant and barren nights. Ad no, I'm not dumping on GZ, I'm just shocked they haven't folded considering how low attendance has been for the past few years no matter what they've tried. Then again, they're only open a few nights a week.

JeffAlso wrote:
The size and state of the current darksider scene is no longer capable of sustaining events by itself. It hasn't for a long time. In order for an event to be successful it needs at least one of two additional elements - tourists or alumni.


Or new blood. Hard Mondays isn't advertised. GZ has run the same lame-ass ad in the City Pages for years and it's more off-putting then attractive. That would be me dumping on GZ, just for clarification. If both venues were more aggressive at advertising they'd get more of a draw. People respond to build-up. They respond to being beaten over the head with something. What they don't respond to is...well, nothing. These places seem to come to the erroneous conclusion that, because they've been around for so long, people will just show up. That hasn't been the case for a long time and instead of doing something about it they're sitting on their hands. That is pure folly, and sort of depressing to watch. Hell, there are die-hards that would be willing to flyer other events. Print up some flyers and give them to people willing to drum up support for their favorite venue. Do SOMETHING. Success or failure is dependant upon the initiative of the venue. If there's no initiative there's no success. I'm willing to bet large sums that there are plenty of 18-25 year olds who would show up if they knew more about these nights or were prodded to attend. I work in an environment where this age group is prevalent, and most all of them are oblivious of what GZ is doing and that there's some gay bar that plays slightly darker music for the straights once a week. If you're not going to tell them about it, they're not going to know and hence, not going to show up. That's not a difficult concept to grasp.

JeffAlso wrote:
The reason that BAGG has been successful for so many years as a weekly event is that tourists come out to see the show, and pay the bills in the process.


Except that the tourists don't come out in strong numbers anymore because BAGG isn't the intriguing novelty it once was. And again, GZ has done nothing to promote the night. I remember when WCCO News ran a feature about BAGG not long after it started. After that free publicity attendance exploded. Apparently no one learned from that and have been riding on the fumes of that long forgotten news bit ever since.

JeffAlso wrote:
The way I see it, the only way for a new darksider event to succeed is for it to not be a darksider event.


I prefer my suggestion over this..."logic." Or whatever it is.


Wed May 21, 2008 12:55 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 10:32 pm
Posts: 285
Post 
Actually, Ground Zero doesn't run their ad in the City Pages anymore, it's in the Vita.mn. It has more details about what is going on during the nights then the City Pages ad did.


Wed May 21, 2008 1:37 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:02 pm
Posts: 1893
Location: Minneapolis
Post 
Theeris wrote:
Actually, Ground Zero doesn't run their ad in the City Pages anymore, it's in the Vita.mn. It has more details about what is going on during the nights then the City Pages ad did.


This is true GZ hasn't been running the city pages ad since before Christmas


BaGG is still doing quite well, it's not getting 700 people a week like it used to but it still is very crowded every Saturday. The Front also helps keep the place afloat, Dirty Duke packs them in everything Friday and Saturday.

I do agree with Devil in there are probably many 18-25's who don't know about GZ or Hard Monday's, events like prom should help with this. But to be honest I know I flyered the hell out of any mall I knew there was a Hot Topic in and I really didn't see that many new faces at Prom.

(Although Skaht and I Flyred the Hell out of prom and did see a nice uptick this past TNE)

Drok, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. And music is one thing nobody can tell anyone they are wrong about since it is entirely subjective.

But I do find this pretty funny:

drok wrote:

TNE- boring music

I miss hitting Jag on wed night... too tight a work schedule right now.


A - You've never been to a Next Element

B - We had a week where Jake was our guest DJ, he did almost two hour set and we themed the entire night very much like transmission.


That said I'm sure there are many Next Elements you would find boring as many nights are electronic music themed, but others can be very rocky.

_________________
DJ Nitrogen

Playlists


Wed May 21, 2008 6:38 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 pm
Posts: 476
Post 
Devil's got a point. I only found out about HM here (well, the previous incarnation). Otherwise, it would not have occured to me in a million years to pop into a random gay bar.

_________________
Squirrels make such angry drunks - (C) Petey


Wed May 21, 2008 8:46 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 20, 1981 7:00 pm
Posts: 1377
Location: Minneapolis
Post 
I would love to see HM do a little more promo. I've asked for a logo or flyer to put on the front page of this site where we have tons of event flyers but I've not had a good response. In fact I've not had *any* response. :-)


Wed May 21, 2008 9:23 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:12 pm
Posts: 4274
Location: pyramids of mars
Post 
dj_craig wrote:
That said I'm sure there are many Next Elements you would find boring as many nights are electronic music themed, but others can be very rocky.


I've seen like 2 advertised that I would have been interested in. in general, your vdefinition of 'wide variety of music' differs pretty heavily from mine.

_________________
Rockula! wrote:
Whooda thought that you could get supress a guy's urge kick someones ass by waving pussy in his face?


Wed May 21, 2008 9:27 am
Profile YIM
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:49 pm
Posts: 661
Location: Minneapolis
Post 
Lets say I were to create a bluegrass themed event, make it recurring, and advertise the hell out of it. The first few nights everyone in the bluegrass scene would likely come out to check it out. After that, the numbers would likely drop and level off.

Even with a ton of advertising, and bending over backwards to ensure that the music being played is exactly what the people want to hear, I would guess that over time the numbers would continually drop as people get older. Bluegrass isn't very popular with the 18-25 year olds, so the pool of 'new blood' isn't going to be able to sustain the event, and it will close.

It's not the early 80s or late 90s anymore. Darksider themes and music just aren't as popular with the young ones as they used to be. I'd say compared to 1998, the size of the scene in the cities is less than half of what it used to be. No amount of advertising is going to change this. Things simply fall out of fashion. If you want to start a club or theme night, I'd suggest choosing a theme that the 18-25 year olds are interested in.

TNE is showing some great signs of success because they are bringing in talent whose followers are outside the regular crowd for Zero. Pretty much every week they have brought in a completely new and different audience, in addition to Zero regulars.

_________________
Its all because of the Humans...


Wed May 21, 2008 10:55 am
Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 2036
Location: not on this site. contact me elsewhere.
Post 
While your logic is quite good, Jeff, there's a fair quantity of non-electric darker folk-er type music that's getting a lot of play and is heard on campus. Devotchka, Painted Saints, etc. It's not really dance music, though.


Wed May 21, 2008 11:56 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:12 pm
Posts: 4274
Location: pyramids of mars
Post 
JeffAlso wrote:
Lets say I were to create a bluegrass themed event, make it recurring, and advertise the hell out of it. The first few nights everyone in the bluegrass scene would likely come out to check it out. After that, the numbers would likely drop and level off.

Even with a ton of advertising, and bending over backwards to ensure that the music being played is exactly what the people want to hear, I would guess that over time the numbers would continually drop as people get older. Bluegrass isn't very popular with the 18-25 year olds, so the pool of 'new blood' isn't going to be able to sustain the event, and it will close.

It's not the early 80s or late 90s anymore. Darksider themes and music just aren't as popular with the young ones as they used to be. I'd say compared to 1998, the size of the scene in the cities is less than half of what it used to be. No amount of advertising is going to change this. Things simply fall out of fashion. If you want to start a club or theme night, I'd suggest choosing a theme that the 18-25 year olds are interested in.

TNE is showing some great signs of success because they are bringing in talent whose followers are outside the regular crowd for Zero. Pretty much every week they have brought in a completely new and different audience, in addition to Zero regulars.


I agree 100%, which is why my definition of "darksider" and "wide variety of music" are, let's politely say "inconsistent" with the majority of opinions expressed on this board. However, I think that a broad definition is more helpful in creating a succesful event- which is why TNE is succeeding. I am pretty sure that we could put together a semi-regular event that featured more music in the death-rock and goth-punk camp which would attract a wider variety of people, and also not alienate the core. And yes, some of it would be pandering to the Hot Topic crowd, but so what?

_________________
Rockula! wrote:
Whooda thought that you could get supress a guy's urge kick someones ass by waving pussy in his face?


Wed May 21, 2008 5:42 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:18 pm
Posts: 298
Post 
in issue 25 of Gothic Beauty [1 issue ago], Mpls/St. Paul was listed as #11. in their 2008 top 25 cities where it's good to be goth. it came w/ a 2 pg article about trends and successful dark club nights in other cities. no matter how scientific [ahem, or not] their list was it's still neat to read what is successful or working for some cities so check it out-unless the ideas in this thread died last month.


Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:26 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:06 pm
Posts: 951
Post 
JeffAlso wrote:
It's not the early 80s or late 90s anymore. Darksider themes and music just aren't as popular with the young ones as they used to be. I'd say compared to 1998, the size of the scene in the cities is less than half of what it used to be. No amount of advertising is going to change this. Things simply fall out of fashion. If you want to start a club or theme night, I'd suggest choosing a theme that the 18-25 year olds are interested in.


Huh... just do a google search of myspace.com or vampire freaks for minnesota and various bands (combichrist, terrorfakt, dawn of ashes, skinny puppy, etc.) and you'll see that you're somewhat mistaken. There's tons of youngens picking up on this stuff. With the advent of file-sharing and social networking sites music gets around. But if you're referring to kids hanging out listening to Bauhaus, you're probably right. What the hell is a darksider -- sounds kind of lame.


Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:30 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:06 pm
Posts: 951
Post 
I think the Next Element thing is a relatively good idea, as there's a rotating line-up of stuff -- instead of just the same dj every week. You can't please everyone in a single night -- attempts to do so, typically leads to pissing off everyone. That's why rotating stuff on a weekly basis makes a lot of sense.

I generally don't go to club nights in the city. I mainly only go to clubs to dance (I find socializing in clubs somewhat annoying) -- club nights here can't give me a consistent set of music I like dancing to, so I don't go. Simple as that. I will on occasions venture out to HM, because it's free and the bartenders know how to make a damn good martini. On Saturdays, I'm much more likely to go to First Ave then GZ: both places will probably play annoying techno, but First Ave is free and they play annoying techno I haven't heard before, so I can get a bit drunk and dance without feeling any disappointment.

People are pretty-pretty-princesses about their musical tastes (myself included), and it's very easy to offend their sensibilities, leading to non-attendance. I've convinced many people over the years to make 300-1000 mile drives to go to shows and club nights in other cities, but driving 10 miles to a club night here is a no-go.

The case with Corrosion (which I do miss). I went almost every night since it started, convincing at least a few social-shut-ins to come with me. However, then I got kicked out -- I was let back in during its last 2 months. The complaints I heard from a few of the old people that stopped going was that the playlists got crappier and repetition (whether that's true or not, I could not say).

But I think a monthly event sounds like a good idea.


Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:02 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 83 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.