View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:54 pm



Reply to topic  [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 The End Of Music...or something 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post The End Of Music...or something
I haven't seen many discussions on the decline of music sales on this board and we actually have some..."musicians" here who, I'm sure, have opinions. You go to other sites populated by musicians and they all decry the file-sharing, the inability to make a living at this music game without the backing of a major label, etc. Where does everyone here stand?

Doesn't it seem, particularly given the glut of armchair musicians - thanks to technology making it easy for everyone and their Mothers to make music - that music itself has completely lost its value? Basic economics dictates that a tremendous increase in supply lowers the value of any product. The fact that musicians don't make money off music anymore should mean that there would be less people making music and yet the reverse is true. More people are trying to put out DIY albums and whining that no one is buying their music as though just the fact they are making music entitles them to be able to provide for themselves in doing so.

Even within the tiny micro-micro-genres many of our scene denizens follow it's become ludicrous how many acts are vying for commercial attention. Hell, as a reviewer for many years I was handed, for free in a lot of cases, albums to review. And it grew to the point where even I couldn't keep up with everything. And there's still plenty of acts I haven't even heard - within styles that appeal to maybe a few hundred people worldwide.

Is it really file-sharing that is "bringing down music" or merely the fact that there are just WAAAY too many people making music, most of whom aren't particularly worthy of any attention at all? Does there need to be a massive market correction where all but a mere few remain, or is it acceptable that so many are out there trying to be the "next big thing" in the hopes of making a living that doesn't really require much work?


Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:09 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
I am sure all of you have seen me (over)use the term "Rock n Roll Fairytale" but it goes way beyond what most people would think
And it is more just the cliche' millionaire lifestyle
Devil hits it on the head when he basically points out that, just because rock n roll is of the people, there just isn't enough room on the stage for ALL of the people who love it

Not only have I seen thousands of forgettable bands but I have also sold them their gear
And most of them had no clue because they were blindly following the rock n roll fairytale
Which is not to say that they have no right to play music that makes them happy OR to imagine themselves playing in front of an adoring crowd
They just don't get the right to take themselves as an importany entity

Music is specifically maketed towards an overpraised generation of kids who were told that they can do anything they want if they try hard enough
Cut to Devil's 2nd point

Those of us older guys remember when the most respected musicians were those who mastered the physical art of manipulating their instrument
it didn't have to be technkical wizardry but the vast majority of musicians could prove it because you watched them move their fingers/hands/lips
Of course, us "good musicians" saw electronic instruments as a threat because, now we weren't so special
I bust my ass playing for hours and hours (mostly because I can't get laid and think this will help) and now some femmy New Wave dork is playing everything on one key
This bred a mistrust of electronics as "short cuts" because, (like Devil pointed out) those people that we had distanced ourselves from were now able to compete with us without having to pay the same dues
Unfortunately, the short sighted among us kept on thinking about how to hit it big with what we were currently doing and what was popular while others were thinking about ways to re-write the rules
Because that's the only way things are ever going to evolve

The glut of bands over the last 20 years has dilluted local music scenes (which are like local elections)and created tons of clubs with tons of slots for people to play
Now you can go to rock school with your dad and both of you can play "Smoke on the water" for your graduation

When everyone is a rock star then NO ONE is a rock star

The second barrier between who belonged in the audience and who belonged on the stage was simple economics
Most people couldn't afford to record a good enough quality product to sell so they needed record companies
You had to be good enough to get a record deal and that's why you belonged on that stage

The end result is a musical climate that has been watered down by too many artists that really add nothing to the evolution of music
All they seem to do is make the music industry richer by emulating their heroes (and opening for them at The Rock)

When the music gets devalued then it is really hard to convince people to even spend $5 to come see a band at a local bar
Especially when they can get exactly what they want at home on their computer and not have to sit through the other shitty bands that have no business being on a stage

I don't feel one bit guilty when someone hands me a thumb drive full of millionaire's music
I never would have bought all of this music in the first place so they really didn't lose any sales from me anyways
I support the bands I like by buing their downloads and attending their shows

Lasty
I have spent a good deal of time lately trying to reconcile with the way that I used to think
Obviously, my hostility towards the fairytale is that I do believe myself like a needle of quality in a haystack full of mediocrity
And that I didn't get noticed because there were too many other people in the way

I like the idea of the power put back in the little guy's hands because that its a true democracy
Everyone of us are still willing to spend their money on things that they truly appreciate and that should dictate who survives
But unfortunately, there is too much money being lost
The music business is no different than wall street in that it is "too big to fail"

Now that the genie is out of the bottle, I believe that it is like a virus that has been unleashed upon the music business and the only people who will survive are the ones with 21st century DNA

Fuck the dinasours
It's time they became extinct

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:03 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:18 am
Posts: 407
Location: atop unknown Kadath, seeking the Ultimate Gate
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
ah this conversation again. back when i was on Side-Line years ago, this was a topic beaten and beaten beyond the point of the bloody sinews of what was once a horse...
the basic point, as both of you have alluded to, is simply quantity over quality. it is much easier to make music nowadays with the availability of software and electronics. whether it is good or not though still fully depends on one's ability and skill with those vehicles so that the product is of a worthwhile quality that might make it marketable, if even to a small subset of the population.
and you what, i do this too all while knowing this. anything i make, i do it for myself. i have no illusions about making money or even putting on a show at some point or anything. i do it purely as a means to explore and release a part of me.
it is also why i support the artists i do listen to by buying music and going to shows. maybe my support is all they have, but if i support them, at least i know i did something to tip my hat to their efforts. that may not be enough for them to continue making that effort, but if it is not, then maybe they don't want it enough to continue. if they aren't making it for themselves, then they obviously expect some kind of reward, which is completely unrealistic when some of that music is so niche.
more often than i would like my "support" is shown by purchasing used items, which i know does nothing for the artist themselves. i really wish i could do more but i can only afford so much. i would prefer that people purchased the music from the artists they like, but i stopped debating that with people some time ago - besides Mark Alan Miller (Out Out) said it better than i ever could on the old Side-Line forum. maybe i'll see if i can find some old remnants of threads hanging around for reference.
so, i guess i don't see music at an end. it's just more watered down to the point where quality music is not being heard or is simply not being purchased so it appears to gasping for life amid the vast quantity of releases available - suffocating even.

and Rockula!, i remember reading that devil didn't like his username being capitalized. of course, i also recall reading that you were stupid and he was a doody head.
hell, maybe this is all a "capital" idea? :D


Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:11 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
and you eat boogers

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Sun Jan 16, 2011 7:13 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Recorded music has virtually no $ value anymore. This isn't a problem, it's a blessing.

For decades the music industry has held musicians and fans hostage by selecting who gets through to the public. They would profit tremendously off successful gambits and would sluff the financian liability on to the artist(s) when the gambits failed. These companies got fat and powerful and began churning out pop acts that accomplished nothing musically but were effective vehicles for merchandising. As this practice became common, it became the norm... until all we had left was empty pop acts that overshadowed those exhibiting real artistry, craft and innovation. The musicians tried to fight these corporate powers in the 90s but were soundly defeated and put in their place. the industry powers congealed and unified to maximize their profits and maintain strict control over their cash cow. The musicians were merely gears in this machine and were treated as an afterthought.

But then like a shot from the blue this MP3 revolution took off. Almost overnight these fat cats watched their industry crumble right before their eyes. They tried to grip it even tighter, but that just made it slip through their fingers even faster. At long last songs ceased to be products... commodities... units... numbers... inventory... and became... songs again. Just songs- as they should be.

Technology makes music creation more accessible to the average person, but that doesn't mean that anyone can make awesome music with the click of a mouse. Roger Waters once famously decried critics of technology by pointing out that the technology Pink Floyd employs couldn't play itself. It still takes a person to know what to do with it, how to manipulate it and how to create music with it. I believe that is still true.

Music isn't going anywhere- but the game has changed and our mindset about music needs to change with it. The playing field has been leveled and musicians should be excited about this development. When have musicians been this empowered to create? You can make a decent sounding recording at home (for cheap!)... couldn't really do that 20 years ago. You can distribute your own music to your fans... couldn't do that back in the day. You can do your own graphics, book your own tours, and you can pretty much control your music however you wish- it's awesome!

The only thing holding us back now is the same old battle we've been fighting for decades- exposure. Musicians will still crave exposure- press, TV, radio, reviews, whatever. This battle will likely intensify because there are more people doing it meaning more people you need to outshine to get noticed. A true artist/musician can outperform and outcreate some newbie with a gadget that makes hip-hop beats or autotunes their voice, so don't ever allow yourself to be threatened by these spares. Do your best work and bust your rump to get it noticed. Give the recordings away- they are business cards now. Sell your live show and sell your merch. You have a gift which can not be engineered into a gadget. You are the cream, and the cream will rise. This is your time, I recommend you get to work immediately to capitalize on this wonderful opportunity.

~€ther~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:19 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
While I generally agree, if cream doesn't actually rise, eventually it just curdles and it's time to throw it out.


Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:54 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
DIY music isn't something new, some of us have been recording and releasing our own music for over 30 years.
If you feel like you've been "held hostage" by major labels, you have been doing it wrong. The opportunity to release your own music has always existed, it's just much easier now. Probably too easy. And like most easy things, the quality has suffered. MP3s sound horrible and should be free. They're aural garbage. You get what you pay for, or don't pay for in this case I suppose.

My bands and just about all of our friend's bands did our own graphics, booked our own tours and released vinyl, cassettes and CDs on our own terms. Without computers. It's definitely easier now, sure. But to say that you couldn't achieve these things 20 years ago is just not true. In some ways you were able to do a better job of it 20 years ago as the "market" wasn't as saturated with rock bands as it is now. 20 years ago it wasn't that hard for an American band to self-book a tour of Europe and get large amounts of people to come to see you, buy your records. I know of bands trying to do that these days.. it's much more difficult due to many reasons. Selling your live show sounds great, except that you can't make much money doing that anymore either, too many venues, too many bands, not enough people willing to shell out more than $5 to see your band. Every night there are literally dozens of bands playing in Minneapolis / St. Paul. Selling shirts, hats or thongs with your band's logo isn't going to pay your mortgage.

I have these discussions weekly as I make my living recording music. It's all still in transition and will continue to be. Fortunately we have clients who understand that you can't always get the sounds they desire with an Mbox and a laptop, and some musicians don't want to diddle with electronics. Most of our work gets released through small labels who are honest, easy to work with and do a great job with distribution, marketing and publicity so there will most likely always be an "industry" in place, though I believe it has changed for the better.


Tue Jan 18, 2011 10:53 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 245
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Metropolis Records posted this on their Twitter today:

http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/ ... _problems/


Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:12 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Hilarious article.. these bands who I guess have some sort of idea that they're somewhat "famous" are indeed finding out that the Rock And Roll Fantasy is just that. I'm sure many thought it would be different for their band because they're just so awesome.

Guess what? You're not going to make a living, even a substandard one, playing shitty kiddie-punk in front of fickle kids who already moved on to the next crap-rock trend. What a surprise.

The people I know and work with who make a living playing music have diversified their skills and many of them play 6-10 gigs every week. They play other people's music besides their own.
No fantasies, just long hours of practicing, playing and getting to the gigs. They teach and / or give lessons.

The other musicians I associate with work other jobs, "day jobs" to support their music habits. That's what I do and what I've always done. I play music because I love to.


Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:35 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
yeah, i engineer so i can support my synthesizer habit. i play shows so i can justify my synthesizer habit.

really, i just like synths.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:39 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
It's a great pastime. I like synths too though I mostly liquidated my collection such as it was.

I'm fortunate to be actually making a living in The Biz so I can't complain.


Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:54 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
DIY music isn't something new, some of us have been recording and releasing our own music for over 30 years.
If you feel like you've been "held hostage" by major labels, you have been doing it wrong. The opportunity to release your own music has always existed, it's just much easier now. Probably too easy.



*sigh*

Please don't be an argumentative douche just for the sake of it. Of course DIY music has existed, but I think you are bright enough to know that wasn't the point. Evidently you've never sat next to a 13 year old as they whip together drum parts, bass, strings, sax, guitar and other stuff into a fairly polished song in only a few minutes. Sure you could do that 30 years ago, but it involved doing a lot of drugs and having it happen in your mind. And sure, you could make your own tapes and hand them out to people, but I think you also know that's not what we're talking about here and it kinda pales in comparison to the technology available today.

Secondly I wasn't talking about ME being held hostage, but rather in the more broad context of 'musicians'. If you don't understand the stranglehold that the record/radio biz has had on artistry in music, then you haven't been paying attention. Look at the charts for the last 30 years and ponder it.

Your comment about MP3s sounding 'horrible' is uninformed, which is odd considering you claim to make a living recording music. Wow. Like anything, MP3s can be created with differing levels of quality and in a variety of different ways- all of which affect the sound quality. I don't want to get into a CD vs. vinyl debate or anything, but to try to generalize like you are doing is irresponsible. (and hey, you brought up cassette tapes and they sound like dogshite!)

Where we agree is that there is still a need for studios who know what they are doing and have pro equipment. I agree that the quality you will get from doing it professionally is different than what you'll get from a home computer. I also agree that small labels serve a purpose and will likely be around for some time. We also seem to agree that the industry has changed for the better, though I'm vexed as to why someone with your opinions and your job would think that.

So if all of these untalented, uneducated morons with a computer can crank out music- imagine what would happen if talented creative musically-inclined folks got they hands on this technology. The production would be staggering! That's why I say musicians need to quit complaining about the way things used to be and realize they are in a pretty darn good place right now.

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:12 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
"sigh" yourself.. I see no reason to be labeled an "argumentive douche" based upon my response. Try being civil sometime.

My point is that no musician is or ever was "held hostage" by labels, charts or airplay. The musicians that decided to take that route chose it themselves. There have always been alternatives. I really haven't paid much attention to Top 40 since the early '70s. It's not interesting music to me.

And yes, of course I've watched kids play with technology and come up with a song. We used to "write music", which didn't involve drugs.
What was in our mind was transcribed to "sheet music".

I don't "claim" to make a living recording music, it's my job. I love it. .wav and .aiff files sound fine to me, I don't like the way MP3s sound. They're good for demoing songs etc. but not for real listening. Not for me and many of my colleagues anyways.

The technology isn't going to save music or make it better. It's just faster now. Instant gratification.


Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:51 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
"sigh" yourself.. I see no reason to be labeled an "argumentive douche" based upon my response. Try being civil sometime.


Quit playing the victim, I know your skin is tougher than that and you don't need a timeout or a sympathy card. You were being argumentative of course, by taking issue with a perfectly true statement- and you know it. To argue that the playing field is even remotely the same today as it was back in the day is simply an argument without merit and could only be made if one wanted to argue (and lose). It's like saying you could wash clothes as well in the 1800s as you can today. Sure, you can wash clothes but you'd have to do them by hand and it takes forever and is hard work- not really the same playing field. THAT... is what I'm talking about. So don't argue with me about such things because that would make you argumentative... and that is something a douche would do. (a-ha!)


Quote:
My point is that no musician is or ever was "held hostage" by labels, charts or airplay. The musicians that decided to take that route chose it themselves.


Then you haven't been paying attention. Follow the money in the music business and you will wind up in corporate office buildings surrounded by dudes who haven't the slightest bit of musical ability or taste. Those people have traditionally controlled what music people are exposed to. Musicians had no other viable route to choose so there was no choice- you either play ball with these people or you go nowhere with your music.


Quote:
I really haven't paid much attention to Top 40 since the early '70s. It's not interesting music to me.


Since the 70s you say.... you say the music is not interesting to you... fascinating... Why do you suppose that is? Be careful, you are making my point for me.


Quote:
We used to "write music", which didn't involve drugs.
What was in our mind was transcribed to "sheet music".


As someone who knows how to write and transcribe sheet music, I can tell you that it doesn't happen quickly. I bet the kid I was describing could write an entire song in less time than it takes you to transcribe one page of sheet music. In fact, he could probably record it, publish the MP3s to the web, open a storefront and eat some GoGurt in the time it took you to do that one page. I'd say we're talking about two different worlds here dude.


Quote:
I don't "claim" to make a living recording music, it's my job. I love it.


Ok, you made it sound like it was your sole income. If you don't make a living at it, then you must have another job to pay the bills. I am not passing judgement on that as I know what it's like to have a job that you love which doesn't quite pay the bills on it's own. Nothing wrong with doing something for the love of it.


Quote:
They're good for demoing songs etc. but not for real listening. Not for me and many of my colleagues anyways.


You and your collegues should get with the times and get up to speed on the new technology. It is possible to make MP3s that sound great.


Quote:
The technology isn't going to save music or make it better.


At last, we agree! Saving music, or even just making it better, is up to people.

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:17 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2003 8:45 pm
Posts: 434
Location: City of Dis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Well, I think its a great thing for people to finally have access to the software and equipment that has become more affordable. Music is about expression, remember this. Now, more people have this outlet for expression. It should never be about making money. EVER!

I read that little tweet or whatever but people think it's really come down to playing live shows and selling stuff at the merch table?? What about focusing in creating memorable music that people will pay for? I like electronic music okay, techno, ebm, whatever. When I go to a "live" electronic show and treated to acoustic drums and electric guitar I feel very insulted. How would you feel if you went to a rock concert and they replaced all their instruments with violins, cello and piano?? I'll visit the merch table to try and support but I find t-shirts with poor design or gigantic prints on them with words that make it almost impossible to wear anywhere except a dark club (Combichrist stuff for example). I wont buy that crap. I wont even bother to buy a cd because I know Ill only like 2-3 songs anyway. I usually just go home and buy the mp3 (albums are dead) or if I cant afford that because I spent all my money on ticket and drink, Ill visit youtube and add the song as a favorite.

The industry is very sick right now and I don't have a solution but to suggest the quality of music had diminished is retarded. We just have more options to collect and expand the personal song library in whatever format of our choosing. People like Zom are blessed being able to actually make a living in the industry as a full time job. Personally, you couldn't pay me enough to eq some suckas' high hats but its why people like him exist.

Please BUY the music if you can. Promote your favorite artists any way you can okay?! Post a tweet, a comment on Youtube, a review on amazon, suggest to a friend or foe......something, anything please..

This is by far the longest post ever on DTC for me. just wanted to share my thoughts/vent.
Peace, I'm out!


Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:31 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 pm
Posts: 476
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
polter wrote:
How would you feel if you went to a rock concert and they replaced all their instruments with violins, cello and piano??


I'm reasonably sure that's been done and actually turned out pretty cool.

_________________
Squirrels make such angry drunks - (C) Petey


Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:27 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
I don't think calling someone a "douche" is necessary. Argumentive.. sure, though I would rather think of these things as "discussions". I'm not angry at anyone here.

The recording studio where I work is my sole income. In fact, I work over 60 hours per week here. I make a decent living and look forward to going to work every day. Fortunately we don't record much Rock.. mostly classical, jazz and folk and art music. So most of the music I work with falls quite a bit outside the mainstream. No major label bullshit either.

It's easier and faster for would-be and actual musicians to crank out their work now, I will agree. It's still nothing new to be completely DIY. The technology has simply allowed anyone with a vague idea of writing music to put together their ideas more quickly and easily than in the recent past. Unfortunately we're ending up with music like Attack! Attack! Vampires are Everywhere! and Owl City :lol:

You can check out our website if you think we're not "up to speed on the new technology". We also have a Facebook page if you want to see what goes on here every day.
Back to work now, we have a Celtic harp and vocal duo this morning, followed by a young female folk singer, then a vocalist from the Ordway and we end the day working with a local composer on his opera. The singer from Kontrol Panel will be doing some of the vocals.

Yay music.


Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:50 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
i can't tell if Attack Attack and Vampires are Everywhere are joke band names or not.


that can't possible be a good sign.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:05 am
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
My mistake.. it's "Vampires Everywhere!" and yeah they're both for real bands.. go to youtube and watch, though I won't be responsible for any gastric upset.


Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:23 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
polter wrote:
I like electronic music okay, techno, ebm, whatever. When I go to a "live" electronic show and treated to acoustic drums and electric guitar I feel very insulted.


Not saying this to attack your personal tastes
BUT
Why go to a "live" electronic show when the only thing live about it is that you get to see the back of someone's laptop?
It seems the only live thing you get to see is somebody sing (that is, if they're not lip-synching)
The rest is just pressing buttons and believing that the're not just pressing "play" and then acting like they are doing something live
OK, maybe they have a decent light/video but you're gonna shell out $15 to $30 just to see that?

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:04 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
I don't think calling someone a "douche" is necessary.


Ok, I was wrong about you having thick skin... that, and the word gets thrown around so much that it's lost it's meaning to me. In any case, I apologize for calling you a douche.


Quote:
The recording studio where I work is my sole income. In fact, I work over 60 hours per week here. I make a decent living and look forward to going to work every day.


Oh... sorry then. You first said that you don't claim to make a living doing it, and now you say you do- that's where you confused me. In either case, I'm glad you have a job you enjoy and look forward to going to.


Quote:
It's easier and faster for would-be and actual musicians to crank out their work now, I will agree. It's still nothing new to be completely DIY.


No doy- you are having an argument with yourself. My point is that DIY has never been easier/cheaper/better-sounding than it is right now. My first band put out 100 cassette tapes- all of which were duplicated, designed, printed, assembled, etc by me. It was a HUGE amount of work just to do 100. It sucked, so your comparison is rather weak to me. It's not even in the same galaxy, man.


Quote:
You can check out our website if you think we're not "up to speed on the new technology". We also have a Facebook page if you want to see what goes on here every day.


No that's ok, I don't really have an interest but thanks. And for the record I don't know anything about your studio so my recommendation to get up to speed on the new technology stems purely from your uninformed statements about MP3 technology. As professionals I would think you owe it to your clientele to have a sound understanding of technology that pertains to your business, but your business seems to be alright so I'm not gonna judge.


Back to work now, we have a Celtic harp and vocal duo this morning, followed by a young female folk singer, then a vocalist from the Ordway [/quote]

Have you ever stopped to wonder if perhaps you died and went to hell? What you described sounds vaguely close to what my own personal hell would look like, minus the chain of multinational singing children.

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:45 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
One man's meat is another man's poison I suppose.. my hell would be playing in a Rock And Roll Cover Band at sports bars.

Fortunately my deep knowledge of digital recording technology and excellent electronic, customer service and people skills assures me that I do not have to degrade myself in such a manner. Hey, can you play Cocaine?


Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:20 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
my hell would be playing in a Rock And Roll Cover Band at sports bars.


oh good lord mine too.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:47 am
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
One man's meat is another man's poison I suppose.. my hell would be playing in a Rock And Roll Cover Band at sports bars.


That hamhanded attempt at razzing me for my musical pursuits can mean only one thing: your feelings are hurt again. Gosh I was making a joke about how I hate the sound of children singing and even THAT hurt your feelings? I even apologized for calling you a douche earlier- that wound should have healed by now for chrissake!


Quote:
Fortunately my deep knowledge of digital recording technology and excellent electronic, customer service and people skills assures me that I do not have to degrade myself in such a manner. Hey, can you play Cocaine?


Degrading? Well, for starters I don't play sports bars and can't remember ever doing so. I sing for a cover band in my spare time and make excellent money at it so there's really nothing degrading there. You'd enjoy the pay raise, I can tell you that much.

Speaking of your job, since when did you develop a deep knowledge of digital recording technology? First you talk about MP3s like you have no clue how they work, then you say you didn't make a living at it and did it for love, then you said you did make a living at it, and now you have a 'deep knowledge' of the stuff? You claim to be a music critic, yet can't back it up. You claim to be a musician yet can't produce a track. Peculiar.

Lastly, I am a learned and experienced musician so I can play most things. So in answer to your question I would say that while I haven't played Cocaine I could prolly figure it out in a matter of seconds if I wanted to... which I don't. So the operative question here really seems to be, can YOU play Cocaine?

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:45 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
You have a problem with semantics. Either that or you're being disingenuous with your commentary regarding my employment.

In any case your game has grown tiresome. Don't forget to tip your bartenders.


Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:45 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
wait, i though everyone knew mp3s sound like shit? hi-frequency artifacts? ring a bell?

there's a reason apple spent so much time on lossless aa3 encoding...

i don't see why calling mp3s shitty (or, similarly, a spade a spade) would detract from someone's knowlege of digital production...

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:48 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
You have a problem with semantics. Either that or you're being disingenuous with your commentary regarding my employment.


And you have a problem backing up what you say. Truth be told, I don't care about your employment so don't get your undies in a bunch. There is an established pattern on this message board of you making claims that you are unable to back up, so it's certainly not disingenuous to be skeptical of what you say or seek clarification. You crabass your way through the conversations until it gets to a point where you need to actually back up your words... and then you bow out. I've witnessed it many times on this board over the years and this appears to be yet another example.

I'm not going so far as to call you a lair or a fake, but your inability to back up anything you say combined with the inconsistencies in your stories certainly would make a person well within their rights to do so.

I understand that you must run away now that you've talked yourself into a corner, but I really wish you wouldn't. I have to find a new punching bag now!

;)

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:47 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
thosquanta wrote:
i don't see why calling mp3s shitty (or, similarly, a spade a spade) would detract from someone's knowlege of digital production...



Just because MP3s CAN be shitty doesn't mean they ARE shitty. There are different ways of encoding an MP3 and it's possible to create quite listenable audio using that format. I covered this already- not that I need to because it is known and generally accepted fact.

As for his knowledge of digital production, I honestly know nothing about it. It's just that sometimes when he talks about this stuff he often sounds like he doesn't have a good working understanding of something he claims to be an expert in, so that strikes me as odd- that's all. And of course he won't actually let us hear anything he's 'produced' so there's that oddity as well. Perhaps he knows his stuff, but is just crappy at talking about it. Or maybe he cleans toilets at some recording studio and is representing himself as a recording professional- I have no idea. All I know is this guy gets defensive real easy and runs away from conversations when asked for specifics or clarification. It's peculiar.

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:03 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
mildly relevant, a list of albums created (mostly) outside of the studio system. some new, some old, some major, some indy.

it holds more to zom's point, that this shit has been and will be done for a long time, mp3 technology or no.

edit: helps if i add the link...


http://www.avclub.com/articles/basement ... r,50424/1/

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:05 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Ether wrote:
Just because MP3s CAN be shitty doesn't mean they ARE shitty. There are different ways of encoding an MP3 and it's possible to create quite listenable audio using that format.


and just because they CAN be non-shitty, doesn't mean they ARE non-shitty.

yes, you can use variable bitrate encoding, high (>256kbps) bitrate encoding, lossless FLAC, or AAC. but few people do outside of aggregate music sites like bandcamp, due to limitations on bandwidth. most of the samples you're going to get out there are 128-192kbps 16 bit and, yes, they sound like shit. Nyquist frequency. myspace and reverbnation's natural, mortal enemy.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:10 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Oh, the pain.. please continue "punching" me. It tickles.

If you have a list of claims I have made on this board that you believe to be lies or fabrications by all means let's see it. I can back everything up but I'm sure you will just do your circular arguments and claim my proof as lies, ad nauseum.

And really.. just because I mentioned that MP3s suck you are now "calling me out" to back up all my posts to your satisfaction? That's a bit petty, wouldn't you say?

You really just don't like when people disagree with you. If you want to be under the illusion that you're somehow Winning on the Internet here, you go right ahead.


Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:11 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Oh, it's no illusion.

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:24 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 10:54 am
Posts: 1273
Location: Minne-Hopeless
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
point #2 The recording industry just lost a major piracy suit. But the funny thing was that Sony and several others were the pirates. The fuckers issued dead artists` music in compilations without gaining permission or offering royalties to the estate holders, so FUCK THEM!

_________________
I've shed the baggage of years in hell. Now, I breathe. I am home.


Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:21 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:

If you have a list of claims I have made on this board that you believe to be lies or fabrications by all means let's see it.


*crickets* and a passing tumbleweed.





That's what I thought.


Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:39 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 12:20 am
Posts: 155
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
I'm usually listening to music downloads for the songs/style of the band...not to analyze the frequency. and yes there are differences between mp3,wav and live audio.
....and my computer monitor speakers aren't hi-fi
SO mp3's are just fine for me. Rarely need better versions ieven if i love the band/songs.
I will take mp3 over a live sound mix of any room i have EVER heard in the twin cities.
shitty sound systems and engineers are WAAAAY worse than mp3.

for many many moons i have prefered the studio version to any live performance sound.
and i can enhance the audio enjoyment at home. :]

_________________
Mach FoX
http://www.machfox.com
http://www.zwaremachine.com


Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:56 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
*crickets* and a passing tumbleweed.





That's what I thought.




Oh, what fresh hell is this? Are you seriously jumping back into the conversation? It had appeared you threw in the towel (rightfully so) but yet here you are, trying to embarass yourself further. Ok, I'll oblige ya.

Lets see... where were we.... ah, yes. You wanted a list of the claims you make but can't back up. Fortunately this message board has threads from many moons ago and all of your claims are well-documented so I suggest you go read your own posts if you can't remember all of the things you told us you do... or have done... Heck, in this thread alone I referenced or alluded to a couple of them so that will give you a nice head start on your research.

PS: What ever happened to allowing me the 'illusion', as you put it, of allowing me to win at something on the internet? Do I have to return my trophy now?

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:45 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
You know how to use the internet, my name is easily found and searched. You can read stuff.

Nobody else around here has questioned the authenticity of my postings. It's just you. So I suggest if these things bother you, do your own investigating of my work and character.


Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:32 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
zom-zom wrote:
Nobody else around here has questioned the authenticity of my postings. It's just you. So I suggest if these things bother you, do your own investigating of my work and character.



So now you want me to do your homework for you, and answer the questions you raised? Nice try, but life doesn't work like that.

If you can figure out how to operate your web browser then it shouldn't take you long to see the posts in which people other than me have asked to hear your music or your recordings, and you became silent all of a sudden. I don't read anything into that, you probably had something really important to do every time these questions are raised.

But hey, none of this is really a big deal to you right? You obviously have done all the things you say so it clearly is no big deal to post links to your stuff. I'm sure you're just waiting for the right moment to drop the axe on us all and blow this conversation to bits. Kudos to you for waiting so many years and building the anticipation, but I think now it's finally time.

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:43 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
http://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D5T5O ... 4md883Mn-w

rifle sport

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www. ... 9_4o0EA0Dg

kontrol panel

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:01 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
i forgot the name of the acousticy one, but i saw em and they were pretty bitchin. (as bitchin as an acousticy act can get, anyway)

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:02 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
No, I didn't see all those other posts. Several people on here have seen my bands. Thosquanta, Devil, Veinsplasher have all been kind enough to come to our shows.

The Quaking Bogge is stil recording, but you can see a clip on Facebook of us playing live this past May. Once the record is finished I of course will post a link where to buy it, but since it's only going to be a vinyl release you'll have to buy it and listen, that is if you have a turntable. If you want to convert it into a horrible MP3 and dumb it down for your preferred means of listening you can certainly then do so.
Rifle Sport and Brick Layer Cake information is also easily found. If you actually did see Shellac during the '90s I was most likely doing FOH for them. Rifle Sport's drummer is now in Shellac.

Yes, I have done all the things I have posted. There is a link to Wild Sound at the bottom of every one of my posts. You can read about me, the studio, our clients. And again with Facebook you can see who's here every day. I post the updates pretty much daily. I recently mentioned that we recorded the new Savage Aural Hotbed album, (besides the previous two). How's that? Look it up or better yet talk to the guys in the band and ask if I worked with them. However, I will not provide you with "samples" of my work as it is the property of our clients and I'm not willing to offer it over the internet to appease your petty demands.


Each one of your posts regarding my character serves what purpose? Does it make you feel better about yourself? Your saying that you have a belief that I am not telling the truth does not make it so.


Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:04 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
thosquanta wrote:
i forgot the name of the acousticy one, but i saw em and they were pretty bitchin. (as bitchin as an acousticy act can get, anyway)


Hey man, we used the Juno 60 on one tune and our acoustic instruments (except the flute) were electricalized.
Thanks for the kind words, though.


Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:13 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
i will gladly take the juno 60 as a kickback for the compliment.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:27 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
How about a DX-7? :P


Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:32 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
how about both?

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:41 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
You really think I would own a DX-7?


Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:46 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
no, but i would!

i've actually got a little half-rack sized clone i got from ollie. good enough.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:24 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
I had a CX-5M that had a DX-7 voicing module that you could program via computer screen, but it was still a pain to come up with useful sounds.
Just not a fan of FM synthesis. Me like knobs, oscillators, filters and stuff I understand better.


Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:32 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
There you go Zomster, that wasn't so hard now was it? Now if you'd only done as I'd instructed right away you could have saved yourself from looking silly all this time.

Don't flatter yourself into thinking I care what you do. I don't. I just pointed out your contradictions and baseless claims - I have no demands, petty or otherwise. I don't know anything about your character (as I've said all along) other than what you post here. I'm sure you're a great guy who is just generally crabby and has some read comprehension issues. Rock out with your Celtic Harp out and spin those vinyls dude!

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:26 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
I'm not so sure that I'm the one looking "silly" here, but whatever makes you happy.

Oh, and have fun with "Fruity Loops" :wink:


Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:06 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
So far Fruity Loops has been pretty fun, though I still have a lot to learn. I needed a new toy to tinker with and that software certainly has fit the bill.

~€~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:20 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
I like this: <a href=http://www.hitrecord.org/reel>HitREcord</a>.
||MODERATOR ADDITION: Working BBCode link: HitREcord

This is why I think Music isn't going to die; I really hope that more projects like this are happening and do grow.
I'm not *huge* into music like lots and lots of readers here; but I think the tech advances are going to help these kind of communities. In spite of whatever the Big Music Industry does.

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:00 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Please don't tease me for my broken code. I'm out of cutting space on my arms.

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:02 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:18 am
Posts: 407
Location: atop unknown Kadath, seeking the Ultimate Gate
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
you don't run out of room. you just start going the other direction...


Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:16 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
I have just started to experiment with fruity loops too
Before, I had all of these impossible Zappa-like riffs in my head
I had to keep them to myself because I wasn't able to articulate them or play them accurately on an instrument
Now, I don't have to limit my ideas with the physical limitations of an instrument
Not only that, but I also removed the philisophical limitations that being a musician has imposed on me
This has caused me to stop thinking in terms of a musician/songwriter and start thinking as a composer

Zappa started music by writing notes on staff paper because they looked interesting
he couldn't find an orchestra to play them and was limited by the musicianship of those around him
How many unique musical minds have there been that didn't have the drive or fortitude to produce the innovative thoughts in their heads because of physical/philisophical barriers that musicians and musical equipment put between the notes in their heads and a tangible result?

Even the various electronic samplers and intruments have limited me because I still looked at them from the musical standpoint rather than a compositional one
Programs like fruity loopsare like any tool
Put a camera or a paint brush or a musical instrument in someone's hands and you will see how talented they are
The advanced nature of a tool may make it easy for anyone to make a an identifiable piece of art
Still, it doesn't make up for the artistic nature of the person making it

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:38 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:18 am
Posts: 407
Location: atop unknown Kadath, seeking the Ultimate Gate
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
exactly. it's not what tools are used, but the creativity and quality of the result. if someone can make a good song using only sandpaper, paper clips, a stapler, a band-aid, and a sampler, more power to them.
it's not how or where it's made, but whether the composition is good or not. if it truly is, people will like it. if not, they will simply fade into obscurity.


Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:30 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
seasonfire wrote:
it's not how or where it's made, but whether the composition is good or not. if it truly is, people will like it. if not, they will simply fade into obscurity.


Disagree
It's weather or not enough money and promotion get behind it
Someone's music could be the most innovate of their time and yet no one will give one squirt of piss about it if they are not told how great it is by the promotional machine that dictates trends

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:17 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:18 am
Posts: 407
Location: atop unknown Kadath, seeking the Ultimate Gate
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
well, yes, that certainly plays a role as well. prevalence and trend does play a role, but it also seems the artists who make good music tend to retain their fans for a longer period of time, provided they get enough exposure to continue existing.
i guess it seems nowadays everything is about immediacy and self-entitlement and people have become more and more fickle with what they have before them. consequently, whatever is more at the forefront will bury those who might be much better - and, because people are less likely to sift through the stuff coming at them, they tend to overlook other lesser known artists who aren't as known.
so, yes, money and promotion does certainly provide a better chance of survival, but the product itself must still be marketable enough to sustain longevity.


Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:27 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
Rockula! wrote:
Put a camera or a paint brush or a musical instrument in someone's hands and you will see how talented they are
The advanced nature of a tool may make it easy for anyone to make a an identifiable piece of art
Still, it doesn't make up for the artistic nature of the person making it



You and I come from two different schools of thought on this one my friend. Talent/creativity is, in my view, only the beginning... Sure, you can put a camera in someone's hands and they can take a picture, but someone who has actually learned how to use a camera and has a basic understanding of photography principles has a huge leg up.

I realize that you may disagree with this, as I've often heard you extoll the virtues of the musician who declines to learn music theory or technique and instead rely purely on their talent and creativity. I maintain that lots of people have raw talent, or are very creative people- but that alone doesn't make you or your work special. Learning fundementals of anything allow a person's raw talent and artistic creativity to blossom to new levels. It raises the ceiling on what one can do with any new tools one encounters and makes it easier for an artist to translate the ideas in their head into something tangible.

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:01 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post Re: The End Of Music...or something
You are correct about my view up to a point
I love neanderthal music like The Ramones and Guitar Wolf because of the rawness of their skills
Although these people produced something that, on the surface, sounds like the same old junk rock, there are undertones to the music that reveal a deeper understanding of what they are almost doing as a parody

I can pick up just about any instrument or paint brush or camera or any tool that an artist uses and come up with something interesting
To address your point, the output may be interesting as a novelty but will soon become tiresome or repetative if no progress is made
The counter point is that a creative person can make interesting art in an unfamiliar medium for only so long until they have to progress as a technician as well
If not, it just becomes the same novelty over and over

My personal example is that I am feeling a bit stale with my TV show and need a more sophisticated video editing program
I have done the same trick over and over for a while and need to use new techniques and explore new concepts
However, you can tell when someone just knows how to use a video editor and yet has no creative ideas in the final product

Yes, technique is essential to someone who wants to consider themselves a "real artist" in their freld
However, some of the most original art that is not affected by self concious parameters has been made by someone who has no idea what they are doing but just so happen to have an artisitc mind

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:30 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 61 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.