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 The twin cities darkside scene is _________. 
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Post The twin cities darkside scene is _________.
fill in the blank.


.......slowly increasing with new blood.


Tue May 01, 2007 12:46 pm
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Post Re: The twin cities darkside scene is _________.
polter wrote:
.......slowly increasing with new blood.


Now I've got this image of a woodtick growing to M&M size...
*shudder*


Tue May 01, 2007 4:55 pm
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Is boring.

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Tue May 01, 2007 6:30 pm
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I'll bore YOU! and you'll like it!

is... what you make it.


Tue May 01, 2007 8:43 pm
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laffo!

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Tue May 01, 2007 10:06 pm
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...usually about an hour and forty-five minutes away.


Wed May 02, 2007 1:28 am
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...good for some, but not what I'm into.


Wed May 02, 2007 1:51 am
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...whiney, much too picky, and self-defeating.


Wed May 02, 2007 7:47 am
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frayed.

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Wed May 02, 2007 9:15 am
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rather salty and a little stale, but still edible.

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Wed May 02, 2007 9:26 am
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
...whiney, much too picky, and self-defeating.


thats, uh. thats really funny, man. i know you're pretty smart, so i'll assume it was intentional.

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...extinct.


Wed May 02, 2007 2:26 pm
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Oh yeah... for my word, I'm going to say that the Twin Cities darksider scene is... incestuous!
<i>"Improperly intimate or interconnected, being so close as to prevent proper functioning."</i>
It is a big enough town that not everybody knows absolutely everybody. However, everybody always seems to know someone else, or someone who knows someone...

We are also really shy about the "g" word... "I'm not really a goth, I'm more of a darksider." How many times have I heard this? Rawr.


Wed May 02, 2007 7:35 pm
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petey wrote:
<i>"Improperly intimate or interconnected, being so close as to prevent proper functioning."</i>


HAHAHA! That's so true!


Wed May 02, 2007 8:13 pm
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petey wrote:
We are also really shy about the "g" word... "I'm not really a goth, I'm more of a darksider." How many times have I heard this? Rawr.


The Good Charlotte fans told us we couldn't use the "g" word anymore.

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Wed May 02, 2007 8:22 pm
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petey wrote:
"I'm not really a goth, I'm more of a darksider." How many times have I heard this? Rawr.


I guess this gets back to the whole "nature of goth" thing, which I find pretty funny. Considering what happens when I pick up a bass or start writing, yeah, I'm pretty damn goth, just not in the interpol/poppy z brite kinda way. I also don't wear all black 24/7, paint my face to go out (although I used to to get up on stage), or fall into any of the other fashion-victim routines of the club-hopping ravers around here.

the TC darksider scene is laffo, for all of these reasons and more...

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Wed May 02, 2007 10:06 pm
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everyone who wears makeup is just a fashion victim?

funny, I don't feel like a victim. and you don't strike me as much of a predator. you think it would improve "the scene" if we all wore plaid flannel and construction boots, and stayed home to complain about other people online? I'm not seeing it. wave that freak flag.


TC goth scene is... petty and unfocused as a subculture.


Thu May 03, 2007 12:01 am
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alisgray wrote:
...unfocused...


Yes!

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Thu May 03, 2007 12:19 am
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schizophrenic and doesnt even know what it wants from its self


Thu May 03, 2007 1:06 am
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alisgray wrote:
everyone who wears makeup is just a fashion victim?

funny, I don't feel like a victim. and you don't strike me as much of a predator. you think it would improve "the scene" if we all wore plaid flannel and construction boots, and stayed home to complain about other people online? I'm not seeing it. wave that freak flag.
TC goth scene is... petty and unfocused as a subculture.


do a google image search of Ian Curtis. now do one of goth fashion.

what I'm saying alis, and hopefully for the last time, is that those of us who don't dress up in the prescribed manner, like the right music, play the right music, or want to be involved completely in the 24/7 social scene still have a place.

"But drok, you're not goth!" I've heard, way too many times. And granted, I'm not clambering over the red-velvet ropes to be accepted by "TEH SCEEN", but my response is generally "been in more goth bands than you have..."

How messed up has the whole thing become that many of us get judged for the clothes we DON'T wear?

I agree with petey- it's pretty damn incestuous. I was fine when I was dating so-and-so, or in a band, but my opinions on "goth" and what it has become "complaining about other people on line"? I was asked for an opinion, and I gave it... once again, tongue firmly in cheek, exercising my right to employ exaggeration and hyperbole to mock something which is intrinsically mockable.

I'n still here- I'm still involved, granted, in a different way than I was 3 years ago. Most of the people on this board are my friends, and I love to hang out with them. But what I won't do is "play ball" to climb rungs on a social ladder that's tied up like a gordian knot.

For the record, no I don't really care what other people dress like, although a fashion victim is a fashion victim is a fashion victim, whether it's some guy in a teal leisure suit and cop sunglasses to a pastel sport coat and zubas, to any Hot Topic wear of the past 10 years to backwards peter brady hair, white belt and girl pants- maybe it's just me, but I can spot an insecure bandwagonesque douche a half-mile away. Mostly, because I was one once myself.

why do you think it's so above jocosity? why defend it so tooth and nail? I know you, you're a frightfully intelligent woman, and yet you still seem to polarize into this "you're for us or against us" argument. If my arguments seem so vitriolic an venomous to some people, I don't think it's me- I think people need to re-evaluate how central four club nights a week are to their lives. I'm not attacking anyone- I'm making snide comments about things I've observed in the past few years. Believe me, when I attack people, they know it.

anyway, shoot me an email. I don't want to start another fucking gothling flame thread with someone who I regard so highly.

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Thu May 03, 2007 1:49 am
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petey wrote:
We are also really shy about the "g" word... "I'm not really a goth, I'm more of a darksider." How many times have I heard this? Rawr.


Get in the now! The whole goth thing has been scrapped and subsumed by the international rave conspiracy. You just keep the shitty goth lyrics, and throw them over 90s trance beats (with a more distorted and bitcrushed bass line). Soon everyone we'll be at the rave.


Thu May 03, 2007 2:57 am
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Drok:
1) I haven't seen very many red velvet ropes anywhere. I'm not sure I believe in them around here. the ones you are resenting may be in your head. dude. I'm not telling you what to wear. stop telling me I'm a victim because you don't like what I wear. it makes me happier. and, it's cheaper than therapy.

2) why is it jocose when you do it and polarizing when I do? wait, it isn't. my point, as always, is that it isn't likely to bring people together for you to rip on what they enjoy. that's pretty much an invitation to rejection. why do you do it? being snide about "the insecure" won't make you any stronger or safer. nor will it help them. if that's what you're trying to do.

3) of course there's a place here for people who don't vamp up their clothes, and/or aren't interested in clubbing. see above about red velvet ropes. and if you don't think there are enough, you're doing the right thing to invite folks over to your place. rock on.

Liighter:
Actually, I do know of a "rave" shaping up in the warehouse district in a few weeks. it's all psytrance, though, you'll have to supply your own lyrics. Has nothing to do with anyone from Gothling, that would be some of the TC Burners -- not my usual crew of them. (anyone is welcome to message me about this, it is the 12th. the place hasn't been announced yet.)


Thu May 03, 2007 4:11 am
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personally ive yet to see this "social ladder" in "the scene"... if you think theres a social ladder, thats a personality trait you need to get help for, because it doesnt exist anymore. maybe 10 years ago.. but..


Thu May 03, 2007 9:24 am
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I'm trying to imagine what would be at the top of the ladder.

TC goth scene is... possibly the tip of the unscene goth iceberg.


Thu May 03, 2007 9:35 am
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i'm at the top of the ladder, behind the velvet ropes.

drok is just jealous that he isn't me.

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Thu May 03, 2007 10:37 am
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thosquanta wrote:
i'm at the top of the ladder, behind the velvet ropes.


See, it is fun that we get to talk to rock stars like you, even if only online!
...And there is the friend at the store that gets comps to shows.
. . .. ...And the whispery excitement when Neil is spied wandering RenFest.

I think the 'Cities are pretty neat, really.
There are occasionally velvet-rope events around town, but they tend to be Arts & Culture events, "the disinterested endeavour after man's perfection", and not necessarily sub-culture. Or, most decidedly NOT subculture. But then, we clean up real nice, so even these events are not impossible (a little stuffy, maybe).


Thu May 03, 2007 2:19 pm
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While I may see holes in the "velvet rope" theory per se, there does remain a subset of individuals who seem to believe themselves as "darker than thou," and while that's generally an irritating behavior to behold, all it really does for me is provide fodder material for laughter.

People get into the (for lack of a better term) "Darksider look" in their early experiences within the "scene" (again, for lack of a better term). It's all about the shiny vinyl, big Frankengoth boots, dreaded hair and extensions dyed multiple colors, piercings everywhere you look and garish makeup application. It's all a big cliche. But as they grow they learn subtlety, and the fact that what you project on the outside is significantly less important than what you project from the inside. That's called growing up. I did some silly things with my own looks over the years, from hammering shit into my face to wearing ridiculous makeup to shaving divots into my eyebrows, etc. None of that matters at all to me anymore. If someone were to actually approach me and tell me I'm "just not dark enough to be involved with some scene" I would laugh myself into a puking fit, and make sure I aimed directly at their Frankengoth boots. But I've never heard of anyone saying anything of the sort to another individual.

Each of us can be easily mocked, particularly me. I have no problems laughing off my own shortcomings. I'm still growing as an individual, and hopefully that will never cease. I'm also working on patience, which has always been extraordinarily difficult for me. I occasionally enjoy teasing people's fragile sensibilities. But I'm not going to shun a person because they like music that I may believe to be a huge pile of crap. I've been converted to a number of musical acts I once despised. If someone were to peruse my library, they would find several items that would elicit great shock. I've even started listening to Combichrist. I don't think they're great by any stretch of the imagination, but I've found a way to derive some enjoyment out of them, even though I still think it's one of the dumbest names ever created.

I think people in the scene are just too introverted. When I started frequenting the hot spots again some five years ago, I didn't hesitate to walk right up to people and strike up a conversation. And when I was given the stand-offish behavior I shrugged it off, thanked them for their time and excused myself politely. Some people just aren't going to budge. That's why I got so involved in the board and began creating the various gatherings in an effort to bring people together for a little cross-pollination. I achieved a modicum of success in that venture, but I don't believe I could ever regard any such endeavor as a "failure."

I like bringing people together, whether they like it or not. Whether they like me or not.



The Twin Cities Darkside "scene" is in a state of flux.


Thu May 03, 2007 8:49 pm
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
While I may see holes in the "velvet rope" theory per se, there does remain a subset of individuals who seem to believe themselves as "darker than thou," and while that's generally an irritating behavior to behold, all it really does for me is provide fodder material for laughter.


Huh?


Thu May 03, 2007 10:41 pm
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Exactly.


Fri May 04, 2007 1:34 am
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christ, you wear what you want to wear, look like you want to look. if 'growing up' means you have to stop that, i dont want any part of it. and this 'darker than thou' attitude your seeing is only in your head. what i see is scared 19 year olds.. no one that i know thinks that way.. and whoEVER got the impression that goths were 'outgoing' and 'friendly'?? theyre the outcasts of society, the nerds, the invisibles, yet people expect them to all warm and welcoming? it just blows me away.. GAH.


Fri May 04, 2007 12:11 pm
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the following lines will get you play every time:

"your taste in music is god-awful and everything you enjoy is stupid and juvenile. wanna be friends?"

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Fri May 04, 2007 12:25 pm
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mzmelissa wrote:
and this 'darker than thou' attitude your seeing is only in your head. and whoEVER got the impression that goths were 'outgoing' and 'friendly'?? theyre the outcasts of society, the nerds, the invisibles, yet people expect them to all warm and welcoming? .


1) No, it's not. I have corroborating witnesses (alex, emily, other people from OOT)

2) If I can be warm and welcoming, anyone can, and I'm one of the most invisible fringy nerds around. being an outcast doesn't mean turning your nose up at anything new- that's a frightfully TC attitude.

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Fri May 04, 2007 12:38 pm
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drok_vox wrote:
being an outcast doesn't mean turning your nose up at anything new- that's a frightfully TC attitude.


I thought this was a gawth problem? You're really coming off as slightly paranoid.


Fri May 04, 2007 1:56 pm
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Liighter wrote:

I thought this was a gawth problem? You're really coming off as slightly paranoid.


for a long time, I thought I was being paranoid and hyper-sensitive. But then, I started talking to other transplants, and found they had pretty much identical experiences to my own. almost all of my friends here are other transplants as well. when I moved here, I had friends from 3 groups- gothling, the woman I was dating at the time, and the bands. There was quite an intersection of the three, as well. After the bands died and the relationship ended, that's when I really started noticing how insular the social circles here are. Don't get me wrong- I understand having a close-knit group of friends, and I respect how tight these circles are. But at times, it seems that you need a letter of introduction with at least three references. The "rules" around here are confusing, often times to the point of absurdity if you're not used to them. Compounding this, of course, is my new work schedule, which pretty much keeps me locked up 9 months out of the year- not alot of time for socializing, and I just simply don't haave the energy to go out and do everything I want to on the weekends any more.

whining starts here-

I'd love to go see naked raygun tomorrow, but I can already tell that my energy level will be non-existent, which in turns contributes to my anxiety, which means I'll probably try to drink myself stupid. I don't like that cycle, so I'm probably going to find something very low-key to do.

/whine

I know I come across as abrasive and heavy handed on this board- but the people who know me can probably see the smirk when I write these long-ewinded diatribes. At least, I like to think they can. I'm normally pretty affable, when I'm not being downright silly. So, forgive me if I can't make the exaggeration clear here, but most of what I write is off-the-cuff and full of hyperbole, not meant to be taken quite so literally.

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Fri May 04, 2007 3:21 pm
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drok_vox wrote:
I'm normally pretty affable, when I'm not being downright silly. So, forgive me if I can't make the exaggeration clear here, but most of what I write is off-the-cuff and full of hyperbole, not meant to be taken quite so literally.

Well, I can never be sure when you're just bein' yer funny self, but this is what comes across (paraphrased / in a nutshell)--

drok: "All you pathetic so-called goths are just into disco rave loops masquerading as music and ridiculous all-black-clothing fashion shows."
peanutgallery: "So, um, what's goth about you, and why would you want to hang out with us then?"
drok: "OMGWTF SNOBS!!shift-1!! !!! I'm not 'goth enough' to hang out with you?! *cry* *pout*"
peanutgallery: ???

This "scene", like any OTHER scene that doesn't have any actual membership forms or physically-restricted access, is pretty much whatever the hell you make of it. I went to Industrial Strength Sundays every week for about 3 or 4 years without anyone ever talking to me. That was fine by me; I didn't talk to any of them! But I didn't get KICKED OUT of the place or EXCLUDED, so I'd look pretty damn stupid whining about it not being a "welcoming" scene. If I wanted to hang out with people who ran up and licked strangers or groped people that were trying to dance, I'd surround myself with filthy hippies instead of goths.

Not to mention the fact that this "scene" is, and always HAS been, a conglomeration of MANY subscenes. The goths, synthpoppers, rivetheads, dancers, drinkers, druggies, technonerds, swingers, spankers, spankees, bootlickers, cyberpunks, and ... tourists from Wisconsin ;) ... actually have VERY FEW attributes in common across the whole group.
- If you don't fit into any of those subgroups, who exactly is stopping you from F*CKING STARTING YOUR OWN!?! I will kick their ass for you.
- If the only common attributes you see tying the subscenes together are things that you despise anyway, why the hell are you decrying the scene's "exclusivity"?

--Rob "those girl scout sashes are tacky and their motto is stupid. ...what, they won't let me be a girl scout??? those stuck-up bitches!!!" Kemmetmueller


Fri May 04, 2007 6:23 pm
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Outcasts are only outcasts if they want to be outcasts. And while I don't expect that people from any social group are always going to be welcoming/inviting, I do tend to expect that when I make the effort to talk to someone as a friendly gesture that they, in kind, make an effort to act civilized and not insulting in their behavior or attitude.

And no, I don't expect everyone I approach to be in a great and social mood, but it does strike me as curious that they would put themselves in a social setting and then act rude to someone trying to socialize with them. Everyone has their bad/off days and I can certainly overlook that, but there are limits. I'm not saying this as an indictment of anyone in particular or the "scene" in general, I just don't understand the behavior at all.

I got involved with this scene because my musical tastes and my way of thinking seemed to gel with the other participants. It was easy to meet and get to know a large number of people, many of whom have long since moved on to other things. Things have changed quite a bit and I'm just trying to adapt to what's going on in everybody's heads these days. I like that we can share our experiences and perceptions in threads like this and have it out. It's certainly not threatening or offensive to me.

Everyone has their opinions and this is where we share them and discuss them. That's why I'm still here.


Fri May 04, 2007 8:41 pm
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which is why I wrote that disclaimer- I'm exaggerating, deliberately, for laffy-laffs. some people take it too literally, and it is, for the most part, people who don't know me personally.

*shrug*

it IS better than the punk scene in town- nothing finer than being snubbed by a gutter punk who wants to bum a smoke, only to find out that you don't smoke american spirits. If the goth scene here is cold, the punks are out and hostile to new people.

as far as your experience of going to the same night for a few years and not talking to anyone or getting talked to by anyone- that seems outright freakish. I mean, really, really bizarre. I started making pals in chicago after a few weeks of going to punk mondays at delilahs after a few weeks.

I think it's obvious that I'm not anti-scene, but I will speak out against parts of it that bug me. Shouldn't we all do that? Isn't discourse part of what we NEED to do?

as for a couple of your other points- I was "goth enough" when I was playing in a band, and dating laurie. when those stopped, suddenly I had people no longer talking to me, treating me with a degree of distrust and rudeness that frankly turned me off from the social parts of the scene for a long time.

and yes, I think the dance/club nights are a monochromatic rave. What the hell happened to rock-n-roll? the heavy electronic music is only going to attract a certain segment of people. I tried to go and hang out with the people I like, but you know what? there's nothing there for me. I'm fine with that, but my outcry for "play something that doesn't go beep-bloop-beep" is not a solo voice- I'm just the loudest and most insistent.

and I'm also sorry if it seems I told anyone they weren't "goth enough" for their clothing/music tastes. I just don't happen to share those tastes, and, honestly, find them highly amusing.

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Fri May 04, 2007 8:48 pm
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Dude, you're going about it all wrong.

When you're being sarcastic on the internets you're supposed to end with this -> :D

Or this -> ;P



C'mon, you've been playing this game long enough to know better.


Fri May 04, 2007 9:11 pm
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top notch!


Fri May 04, 2007 9:39 pm
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
Dude, you're going about it all wrong.

When you're being sarcastic on the internets you're supposed to end with this -> :D

Or this -> ;P



C'mon, you've been playing this game long enough to know better.


I gave up on sarcasm on the internet a long time ago. ;/

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Fri May 04, 2007 9:59 pm
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<i> at times, it seems that you need a letter of introduction with at least three references. The "rules" around here are confusing, often times to the point of absurdity if you're not used to them.</i>

mm, I know that feeling too. but harshing on people you want to engage is not asking for a friendship. unless I'm wrong, I suppose. the "rules" anywhere are a little confusing, I find.

if one is expected to give the shirt off one's back for one's friends, one chooses one's friends carefully. I have even quite recently been accused of being "needy" for trying to befriend people. On the one had this makes me laugh, on the other it makes me sad.

there's a certain amount of truth to the idea that one needs a letter of introduction or references or a certain period of time before being acceptable. this is not the same as a social ladder, however. it goes in circles.

I do the compulsive introduction thing as a way to counteract the affliction of standing next to the same people for months and not meeting them. I realize that it makes me appear to be a wingnut, but I figure it's harmless wingnuttery. It doesn't generally mean that I become close friends with everyone I introduce myself to.


Sat May 05, 2007 8:09 am
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Yeah, and I've always appreciated seeing that. Io does the same thing. He meets a lot of people through his parties and nights out and he'll always introduce you to someone he thinks you might not know. I try to do the same thing. The more that people become familiar with one another the larger and tighter this scene will be.

The last time I was at Hard Mondays I was commenting to some people that I used to know every single person that attended on any given Monday. Now when I go I only know about a handful of the patrons. I guess it's time to start aggressively introducing myself to people again.


Sat May 05, 2007 8:43 am
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I really should go to more of his house parties. it's a long way from St. Paul and I am always the driver.

it's excellent manners that he continues to invite me even though I haven't shown up since... february before last or so.


Sat May 05, 2007 8:47 am
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I'll go to at least 1 over the summer... and alis, I'll drive, if we can take your car ;)

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Sat May 05, 2007 11:31 am
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
The last time I was at Hard Mondays I was commenting to some people that I used to know every single person that attended on any given Monday. Now when I go I only know about a handful of the patrons. I guess it's time to start aggressively introducing myself to people again.


sometimes i will be out on the patio on a monday and there will be a lot of people out there, and i'll realize that i don't know a single one.

my more recent attempts at meeting new people and introducing myself have been met with a coldness i'm not used to. like i'm an intruder, and how dare i come up and speak to them.

after awhile, i just get tired of trying. i tend to stick around the people i know. i've been called a snob, elitist, a bitch, etc. but really, i'm actually pretty damn shy.

as far as dressing a certain way, i've been dressing the way i do since i was 10 and allowed to pick out my own school clothes. black is comfortable to me. i don't have to worry about stains from my clumsiness, making sure things match, etc. however, those who know me outside the clubs/bars have seen me in blue jeans, tshirts, sneakers, etc. i go through phases as far as makeup is concerned. sometimes i like to be a bit more elaborate with it. sometimes i don't wear any at all.

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Sat May 05, 2007 5:43 pm
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eiregirl wrote:
my more recent attempts at meeting new people and introducing myself have been met with a coldness i'm not used to. like i'm an intruder, and how dare i come up and speak to them.


Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, and I believe it's what Drok is referring to as well. I don't want to get to the point where I stop trying however, because I tend to have a lot more fun when I know a lot more people. And I like having as much fun as possible when I venture out.

I think you just wrapped it up a bit more succinctly than we did.


Sat May 05, 2007 7:28 pm
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
I don't want to get to the point where I stop trying however, because I tend to have a lot more fun when I know a lot more people. And I like having as much fun as possible when I venture out.



yeah, i have a lot more fun when i know a lot more people too. lately, i've just been going out alone, hoping i'll run into someone i know.

i really think the 'scene' goes through phases in which it will be really fun and you'll know lots of people for several months, and then the complete opposite will happen for even more months.

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Sat May 05, 2007 7:35 pm
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drok_vox wrote:
I'll go to at least 1 over the summer... and alis, I'll drive, if we can take your car ;)


dude, you even live in St. Paul.

You're on.


Sat May 05, 2007 8:56 pm
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GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
eiregirl wrote:
my more recent attempts at meeting new people and introducing myself have been met with a coldness i'm not used to. like i'm an intruder, and how dare i come up and speak to them.


Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, and I believe it's what Drok is referring to as well. I don't want to get to the point where I stop trying however, because I tend to have a lot more fun when I know a lot more people. And I like having as much fun as possible when I venture out.

I think you just wrapped it up a bit more succinctly than we did.


Heh... when I go out, I generally like not knowing anyone. I find chit-chat and trying to here what others are saying over loud music kind of irritating. I go to club nights in other cities, so I can focus on drinking and throwing down some moves.

Small side-note: if you look at names of radio/internet music shows, production companies, and club nights, words that have connotations of goth, dark, or black are being phased out of the lexicon. They are being replaced with words that have connotations of machinery, war, or electronics.


Sat May 05, 2007 11:38 pm
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Liighter wrote:
GodCoversHisEyes wrote:
eiregirl wrote:
my more recent attempts at meeting new people and introducing myself have been met with a coldness i'm not used to. like i'm an intruder, and how dare i come up and speak to them.


Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, and I believe it's what Drok is referring to as well. I don't want to get to the point where I stop trying however, because I tend to have a lot more fun when I know a lot more people. And I like having as much fun as possible when I venture out.

I think you just wrapped it up a bit more succinctly than we did.


Heh... when I go out, I generally like not knowing anyone. I find chit-chat and trying to here what others are saying over loud music kind of irritating. I go to club nights in other cities, so I can focus on drinking and throwing down some moves.

Small side-note: if you look at names of radio/internet music shows, production companies, and club nights, words that have connotations of goth, dark, or black are being phased out of the lexicon. They are being replaced with words that have connotations of machinery, war, or electronics.


sometimes, i do like going out and not knowing anyone. it's the times where i actually put forth an effort to try to get to know the "newbies" (for a lack of a better word...) that i feel so "cold-shouldered" and i find it so weird. this is because in all the years of going out, this is the first crop of newbies that seem to give everyone the cold-shoulder and the "holier-than-thou" attitude, and i don't understand it. maybe i am reading it wrong. that's completely possible, and i'm not saying i'm completely put off by it, just confused. it's like the new kids on the block are too cool for the old school kids, as it were. and the thing is, we're not. we're really just the same as them, just maybe a decade or more older than them. we're trying to be accommodating, and it just doesn't work. so, we keep to ourselves and nothing is solved by that. nothing.

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Sun May 06, 2007 3:17 am
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huh. doesn't reflect my experience. there's an inevitable tension between two common factors of darksiders/goths: (1) dressed for attention, with the subtext of "lookatmelookatme", (2) shy or even uncomfortable with people, subtext "getawaygetaway". that's nothing new.


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alisgray wrote:
huh. doesn't reflect my experience. there's an inevitable tension between two common factors of darksiders/goths: (1) dressed for attention, with the subtext of "lookatmelookatme", (2) shy or even uncomfortable with people, subtext "getawaygetaway". that's nothing new.


ah. good tension, I like tension, or rather describing things in terms of tension... I'm glad it's put this way, now this makes a lot of sense. very good ma'm.


Sun May 06, 2007 8:30 am
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the less people i know, the more i feel comfortable. i don't like approaching strangers, and i don't like meeting people. i have a group that i'm comfortable with and that's how i've been my whole life. it's not because i'm "goth" it's because i'm reserved and private. it's not even because i'm unfriendly. i'm just never going to be in your face. & trust me, i've tried being a social butterfly, it doesn't work for me. i think it's important to remember that it takes all kinds and i'd hate for anyone to label me as anything or as problematic to the scene or standoffish just because i'm quieter/not as comfortable/not a party animal. i suppose there are some people out there who are snobbish, but some people just like to keep to themselves. i personally don't know of a social ladder but that might be because if i ever got near it i'd run the other way. after writing this i went back to read and it seems that there is a prob. w/ the "newbies" and i have no idea who they are anyway so my reply probably has nothing to do w/ what we're talking about anyway. just wanted to point out why some people might not seem as receptive to conversation.
for the orignal fill in the blank question i don't have an answer.


Mon May 07, 2007 1:28 pm
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eiregirl wrote:
my more recent attempts at meeting new people and introducing myself have been met with a coldness i'm not used to. like i'm an intruder, and how dare i come up and speak to them.

after awhile, i just get tired of trying. i tend to stick around the people i know. i've been called a snob, elitist, a bitch, etc. but really, i'm actually pretty damn shy.


I've been following this thread for a while now, but what you said really sums it up. I've been going to GZ for about 4 years (off and on) and always thought that the "scene" has changed since I first started going. It seemed like things happened in waves. But then I thought maybe it was just me. Hell, I even used to dance there, and still couldn't make friends. You run into the same people for years, but it seems like many people are so comfortable with what and whom they know that they are no longer open to making new friends.... Comments?


Tue May 08, 2007 11:29 am
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<a href="http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html">the monkeysphere theory</a> posits that there's a natural limit to how many distinct individuals a person (well, originally a monkey,) can recognize and relate to, and that limit is about 150. Maybe all their brain space is full of comic book characters, soap opera stars, and their alternate personae.


Tue May 08, 2007 12:16 pm
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my brainspace is reserved for synthesizers.

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Tue May 08, 2007 12:39 pm
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So out of curiousity. When one of these complete strangers walks up and starts talking at you... what the hell are you supposed to say?

(Is there a criterion for figuring out if they're scizophrenic? Is talking to new people a good idea? Or is it just another way to have an uncomfortable conversation with someone you have nothing in common with?)


Tue May 08, 2007 1:31 pm
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I try to talk to people like I've known them all along. Some people just aren't good at moving a conversation along but, in most cases, I can resolve that through leading questions and such.

I talk to the schizophrenics too. In fact, I've been approached by a couple at the Saloon. Sadly, a tight bond was not created.

I figure if we're in the same place, we must have some things in common. But I don't necessarily need that to hold a conversation. There are some people in this community with which I've become good friends or at least solid acquaintences simply by approaching them out of the blue to talk.

I realize that it isn't something everyone can do, either out of discomfort or lack of ability. That's generally why I take it upon myself to approach others and inject myself into the conversation. This works better if you approach a small group as opposed to just one individual.

Sometimes I score a hit. Other times I'm like an irritating gadfly. I take what I can get.


Tue May 08, 2007 2:18 pm
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before I worked retail I didn't have this skill either. and it sometimes fails me utterly. I find "hey, what's your name?" to be a good icebreaker. (do people still call them icebreakers? that's so 1930s!) because the retail environment in which I had to learn to converse with people involved selling jewelry, I find I will often comment on some form of personal adornment. this is surprisingly effective. it may be surprising or obvious, but most people who wear jewelry have some kind of meaning behind it. sure it's decoration. but often it is also a reminder or an award or representative of something. go figure. your mileage may vary.

"boy, that sure is an unusual bondage harnass you're wearing. is there a story behind it?"


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I have difficulty shutting the hell up!

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