View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:42 am



Reply to topic  [ 132 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
 Okay, so, cigarettes. 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 2380
Location: Ehr. well. Im not a local
Post Okay, so, cigarettes.
I slowly started using tobacco products as soon as I turned eighteen. And over the last year or so exactly I started smoking cigarettes. I've enjoyed them, but of course, these days there are quite a few health concerns flying around.

What do you people think about the infamous and delicious cigarette?

_________________
Mind crunching rage.


Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:41 am
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post 
Waste of money. Aside from the cost the impact to your health is tremendous. Regular illnesses become more common and the long term illnesses, well..typically lead to death and shit. Plus they make you stink. Bad.

But there are some pluses. They satisfy your body's growing addiction to nicotine and...okay I guess there's just that one plus.


Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:59 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 813
Location: minneapolis
Post 
yeah, DONT START... my mom coughs up a lung almost every conversation i have with her.


Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:13 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:18 pm
Posts: 298
Post 
they stink. other than that i don't think about them, i don't care if the people i know smoke or not.


Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:57 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3375
Location: ATBOG
Post 
They are sexy & provide American jobs, & help keep health care costs down.


Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:36 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post 
they make 2fisted happy.


that should help ya quit.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:38 pm
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 pm
Posts: 476
Post 
I smoked regularly for 8-10 years ( I don't really remember). Then, I got a really nasty cold that lasted for a couple of months and made it really unpleasant to smoke. When the cold passed I realized I wasn't really intersted in smoking any more. There just isn't any fun in it when you are not 18. It was not a rebellious habit any longer. Now I just smoke a pipe on occassion. Pipes smell tons better than cigarettes and I can do the snooty English thing.

_________________
Squirrels make such angry drunks - (C) Petey


Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:03 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 4913
Location: S St Paul
Post 
Cutting yourself would probably be a less-bad habit.

Try coming up with a product that's as unhealthy and addictive as cigarettes. Try to get it approved for legal sale in every gas station in the country. See how far that gets. What lessons can be learned from that experience?


Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:54 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:06 pm
Posts: 951
Post 
Cigarettes are amazing... I don't think I could get any writing done if it wasn't for cigarettes. I love the fact that it's the only product available on the market, that if used properly, will kill you. It's sheer enjoyment without restraint...

As far as health problems, while I'm sure I'll die a terrible death, there aren't any for me right now. But then again, I jog 2-5 miles a day.


Last edited by Liighter on Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:09 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:49 pm
Posts: 3157
Post 
Love cigarettes... but can't seem to get hooked. Every third or fourth one makes me feel ill. Made up my mind to never buy them anymore a couple birthdays back.

_________________
And over the ashes the stories are told
Of witches and werewolves and Oak Island gold


Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:34 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post 
I like the smell of a cigarette when it first gets lit up
My whole family smoked but I never did
Lighter shares the same affection for cigarettes as Zappa
It is a great tool for working
It gives you a special kind of focus because the act in itself is so addictive
I don't smoke......tobacco but I understand the act itself

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:21 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post 
Ew.
At least buy loose and roll your own, it would cut out most of the nasty, addictive shit they put in cigarettes to hook you.

And I don't mean to sound crass, but sucking off a guy who smokes is one of the *worst* tastes I've endured. If you can't quit for yourself, do a favor for the ladies.

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:03 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2003 5:52 pm
Posts: 3442
Location: minneapolis
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
Ew.
And I don't mean to sound crass, but sucking off a guy who smokes is one of the *worst* tastes I've endured. If you can't quit for yourself, do a favor for the ladies.


and for drok.

_________________
thosquanta: the band!
http://www.thosquanta.com


Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:54 am
Profile YIM WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 4:06 pm
Posts: 951
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
Ew.
At least buy loose and roll your own, it would cut out most of the nasty, addictive shit they put in cigarettes to hook you.

And I don't mean to sound crass, but sucking off a guy who smokes is one of the *worst* tastes I've endured. If you can't quit for yourself, do a favor for the ladies.


I never really thought it was worthwhile to worry about the side-effects of a product that's supposed to kill me. Though I generally smoke cigarettes with no "extra stuff," to avoid having a bad taste/feeling in my mouth.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 3:39 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:49 pm
Posts: 3157
Post 
My co-worker, it turns out, isn't as over the smoking as she said. I tagged along with her on an errand yesterday and she pulled out the heaters.

I had one, too, and it was beeyooteefull.

_________________
And over the ashes the stories are told
Of witches and werewolves and Oak Island gold


Fri Feb 06, 2009 8:59 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
veinsplasher wrote:
My co-worker, it turns out, isn't as over the smoking as she said. I tagged along with her on an errand yesterday and she pulled out the heaters.

I had one, too, and it was beeyooteefull.



I love smoking, however it's gotten to the point where it's too expensive and inconvenient. I think I'll quit just out of frustration. I am sick of being demonized for it, taxed like crazy for it, and unable to do it in public. Very annoying.

Did you know that they just raise the federal tax on cigs? It's now well over $1 a pack- and that's just the federal tax. State taxes are also on the things. Smokers pay waaay too much for a legal product and it is completely unfair.

It's a shame, really. Smoking is an ancient tradition and one that many people find quite enjoyable. I don't chain smoke, but when I do smoke I enjoy the taste and the act of doing so. I am an adult, I'm aware of the health concerns, and I should be free to smoke if I wish. I just don't get people's big deal about smoking. If you don't like it, don't do it. Whatever. I hate chewing tobacco, so I don't do it. I really don't give a rats ass if someone else does.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:46 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 4913
Location: S St Paul
Post 
Ether wrote:
Smokers pay waaay too much for a legal product and it is completely unfair.

Pff. The unfair part is that it's LEGAL, in spite of all the other less-harmful and less-hazardous things that are ILLEGAL.


Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:10 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 12:50 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: Winona, MN
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
Ew.
At least buy loose and roll your own, it would cut out most of the nasty, addictive shit they put in cigarettes to hook you.

And I don't mean to sound crass, but sucking off a guy who smokes is one of the *worst* tastes I've endured. If you can't quit for yourself, do a favor for the ladies.


Rolling your own is a good idea. I do it, and save about $4 a day from what I was paying.

As for the second issue, if you're a guy smoker, just drink a lot of orange juice. It not only replenishes the vitamin c you lose through smoking, but it makes the person going down on you a lot happier.


Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:41 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post 
I just have one of those flavored syrup bottles next to my penis like they do at the soda fountain
Right now, i just have cherry cherry and vanilla but I'm hoping to add pina colada

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:15 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 12:50 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: Winona, MN
Post 
Rockula! wrote:
I just have one of those flavored syrup bottles next to my penis like they do at the soda fountain
Right now, i just have cherry cherry and vanilla but I'm hoping to add pina colada

In case Rupert Holmes stops by? Damn hospitable of you.


Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:43 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post 
Can you believe he didn't score with his follow up song "Answering machine?"
I thought that was just as clever

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:34 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 12:50 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: Winona, MN
Post 
Rockula! wrote:
Can you believe he didn't score with his follow up song "Answering machine?"
I thought that was just as clever


Doesn't matter. He's been scoring with girly drink drunks for decades.


Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:04 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post 
<object><param></param><param></param><param></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1_H_sVNgvf4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:02 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
rskm1 wrote:
Ether wrote:
Smokers pay waaay too much for a legal product and it is completely unfair.

Pff. The unfair part is that it's LEGAL, in spite of all the other less-harmful and less-hazardous things that are ILLEGAL.



Hold on... it's 'unfair' that it's legal? Legal?!?!? It's an ancient tradition practically as old as human use of fire! You're saying that the ancient tradition of inhaling smoke from burning leaves should be illegal? Are you insane? Do you want to ban tattoos or drinking beer next?!?!

~E~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Mon Mar 02, 2009 5:51 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 4913
Location: S St Paul
Post 
Ether wrote:
rskm1 wrote:
Ether wrote:
Smokers pay waaay too much for a legal product and it is completely unfair.
Pff. The unfair part is that it's LEGAL, in spite of all the other less-harmful and less-hazardous things that are ILLEGAL

Hold on... it's 'unfair' that it's legal? Legal?!?!?

Yes.

Ether wrote:
It's an ancient tradition practically as old as human use of fire!

Kinda like opium and peyote? Your selective outrage amuses me.


Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:15 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2003 11:40 pm
Posts: 540
Location: hell
Post 
there are much better and cleaner drugs to spend your money on

its the way to go if you want to 'half ass' being an addict though, everything but a decent drug experience... then you can stop for awhile and get attention, sympathy, and encouragement from your friends.

yep tobacco is awesome :x

_________________
>8]


Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:58 am
Profile ICQ YIM
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
rskm1 wrote:
Ether wrote:
rskm1 wrote:
Ether wrote:
Smokers pay waaay too much for a legal product and it is completely unfair.
Pff. The unfair part is that it's LEGAL, in spite of all the other less-harmful and less-hazardous things that are ILLEGAL

Hold on... it's 'unfair' that it's legal? Legal?!?!?

Yes.

Ether wrote:
It's an ancient tradition practically as old as human use of fire!

Kinda like opium and peyote? Your selective outrage amuses me.


Who says my outrage is selective? If it's a plant, and you are an adult free human, you should be able to burn said plant. I don't care what plant it is. If it grows in nature, it's ok by me.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:35 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 4913
Location: S St Paul
Post 
Ether wrote:
Who says my outrage is selective? If it's a plant, and you are an adult free human, you should be able to burn said plant. I don't care what plant it is. If it grows in nature, it's ok by me.

It's still comical that you're crying "unfair" about the amount of taxes you have to pay, but hey, at least you're not a hypocrite.

The people who write laws and decide what's "legal" (and "why"), however, do not share your views. At all. Except in the case of tobacco, which they turn a blind eye toward (including all the additives designed to make it MORE addictive), for my$teriou$ rea$on$. It $eem$ like they're u$ing a wildly different $et of $tandard$ to judge tobacco, compared to other plant-based substances with harmful effects and additives.

Ergo, unfair.


Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:04 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post 
Equating cigarettes to ritual smoking would be like using WonderBread for communion. It's been too far removed from the original source to be worth anything other than prematurely killing your lung tissues.
And rituals hold special symbolism because they are done for special ceremonies or holidays. A person smoking nasty, chemical-laced cigarettes multiple times a day <i>because they are addicted</i> is not for any sort of spiritually significant occasion.

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:34 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 2488
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
Equating cigarettes to ritual smoking would be like using WonderBread for communion...


HAHA!


Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:39 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 4913
Location: S St Paul
Post 
^ An excellent point. And it ties right in to Ether's silly complaint about the taxes on tobacco.

Hey, guess what: if you go out in the woods and find your own damn tobacco (the way the dudes who invented fire did), there's a 0% tax on that!

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr. Ancient Tradition!


Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:31 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
Equating cigarettes to ritual smoking would be like using WonderBread for communion. It's been too far removed from the original source to be worth anything other than prematurely killing your lung tissues.
And rituals hold special symbolism because they are done for special ceremonies or holidays. A person smoking nasty, chemical-laced cigarettes multiple times a day <i>because they are addicted</i> is not for any sort of spiritually significant occasion.


Somewhat clever comparison, but not a good one I'm afraid. Nice try though.

First of all... Wonderbread has yeast in it, therefor can not be used for communion.

Secondly... I'm not saying smoking has remained exactly the same as it was when people were burning leaves on a brushfire and sitting around inhaling it. It clearly has evolved in the same way all things tend to. Many manufactured cigarettes have additives and chemicals in them, but there are plenty of options for those who do not wish to consume these additives. It is still quite possible to purchase cigarettes that are manufactured which have natural tobacco in them.

People still use cigarette time as a time of reflection or relaxation- it's quite common and it's origins go back to ceremonial use of tobacco. It's quite common for people to take their 15 minute break at work to go out and smoke and have a moment to themselves. People also commonly smoke in groups, smoking socially. Some people only smoke when they go out. Many hunters still give a tobacco offering when making a kill. So don't tell me that smoking is not a tradition, and is not still used as such.

It still blows my mind that there are so many people like you that are in favor of this type of nanny-state control. You want the government to tell us everything we can or can't do.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:28 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 2036
Location: not on this site. contact me elsewhere.
Post 
Ether wrote:
...Wonderbread has yeast in it, therefor can not be used for communion.

According to... the One True Christian Church? which one is your flavor? I assure you that there are some fairly well-established sects which do use leavened bread. Frankly I can't think of anyplace that ever made a stricture about leavening in communion bread. It's certainly not in the scripture.

I'm quite sure there are rituals and traditions involved in shooting smack as well. Come to think of it, the KKK was all about ritual!

...you, my friend, are deeply in denial.

yeah, too bad that "nanny state" jerked banking regulations. oh wait, that was the other thing wasn't it.


Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:00 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post 
I'm a smoker (mostly cigars now) but I'm glad smoking isn't allowed in public places anymore. It's a public health issue and it was driving up health care costs which affected us all. The government dictated that asbestos shouldn't be used due to the public health risk and now it's dictating that the public shouldn't have to breathe in your nasty smoke. Now, if the Gov't says you can't smoke in your own home or backyard I'll take issue with that. I'll be on the front lines declaring they've overstepped their bounds. But when you relegate nonsmokers and asthmatics to staying home when they would like to see a band or attend an event, well, fuck you and your addiction.

You really can't argue that smoking doesn't contribute to the deterioration of public health. I guess I can't understand why your ilk tries to do so. I suppose it's just the addiction talking, but whatever.


Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:00 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post 
Ether wrote:
Wonderbread has yeast in it, therefore can not be used for communion.


I think it makes it the most exact comparison. Yeast renders a bread unfit for ritual, such as cigarettes have numerous chemicals added to them designed for addiction--rendering <i>them</i> unfit for ritual.

Whatever reason you smoke for; relaxation (a chemical and psychological reaction to the drugs), socially (insecure desire to fit in), ritual (respectable, but too seldom to validate your argument) or otherwise (smoking while hunting puts the prey onto your scent anyway), I don't honestly care. It's a disgusting habit that irreparably harms your body, your possessions and the people around you. It is beyond me why anyone does that to that to themselves, for recreation or otherwise. Anyone can take 15 minutes to gather their thoughts <i>without</i> a nic-fix.

Ether wrote:
It still blows my mind that there are so many people like you that are in favor of this type of nanny-state control. You want the government to tell us everything we can or can't do.


It blows my mind that you draw such an assumption from my comments. I don't believe the state should control whether or not you smoke. That would be ridiculous and ineffective. However, I am a severe asthmatic and I detest having *my* social freedom restricted due to *your* optional habit.

Try breathing through a wool sock for an hour. Try it for a week. Breathe that way while trying to run. It's not fun.

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:47 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 4913
Location: S St Paul
Post 
Ether wrote:
It still blows my mind that there are so many people like you that are in favor of this type of nanny-state control. You want the government to tell us everything we can or can't do.

And if you're lumping me in there, oh HELL no.

My thinking is that pot and opium should be legal too, so we can call a truce on this laughable "war on drugs", and then (drum roll) TAX the living bejeezus out of it. The addicts will pay off the national debt, and the drug dealers will all get respectable jobs.

I think your whining about taxes on tobacco is hilarious, but probably not for the reasons you thought.


Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:42 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post 
As usual, it will take economic realities to force people to accept pot
Calif. Assemblyman Tom Ammiano has introduced a bill to legalize it
His figures estimate a billion dollars in tax revenue for the state
Of course law enforcement is morally outraged
It's easy to act that way when your job security is threatened
Plus, they throw the usual scare tactics like kids smoking it more (ike that's possible) and people driving under the influence (yeah, they've got the whole drunk driving thing under control too)
I know this is a bit of a stretch but it reminds me of the documentary on LBJ when everyone (including the guy to initially told him to escalate)told him to get out of Vietnam because it was an impossible cause
He thought he couldn't because they were in too deep to "cut and run" (sound familiar?)
It ended up wasting thousands of lives and billions of dollars and never really stemmed the tide of Terrorism....I mean Communism (oops, wrong decade)
The issue is less clouded when you realise that stopping the war on drugs will not only end the outrageous spending and the impact it has on very small time "criminals" but it will actually generate revenue
One news report estimates weed will be $50 an oz (a very reasonable price)

After we legalize pot, we should go ahead and legalize gay marriage too
Can you imagine the amount of money THOSE people would spend on a wedding?
Hell, I pray for a gay man to open the door when I deliver food because they tip very well (unlike rich people in their Mc Mansions who tip less than %10)
Plus, it would be funny if pot and fags were what saved our economy

As far as smoking goes?
I could care less
I have breathing problems too but you don't see me whining about it
I also have problems with fuckasses on the road, douchebag scenesters, greedy club owners and general fuckassery all around
All of those factors raise my stress level and affect my health
However, I cannot stem the tide of those things so I just deal with it
And, if she has smoker's breath, I just give her a piece of gum

Lighten up people
The world's a dangerous place and it will kill you eventually
Spending all of this time and energy keeping your own personal life as intrusion free ends up costing you in the end just in stress levels alone

Now if I could only take my own advice when it comes to emo kids

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:03 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
alisgray wrote:
According to... the One True Christian Church? which one is your flavor?


None of them are my flavor, I reject organized religion. But communion isn't supposed to have yeast in it. Look it up and quit wasting my time with your uninformed and argumentative nonsense.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:01 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
It blows my mind that you draw such an assumption from my comments. I don't believe the state should control whether or not you smoke. That would be ridiculous and ineffective. However, I am a severe asthmatic and I detest having *my* social freedom restricted due to *your* optional habit.

Try breathing through a wool sock for an hour. Try it for a week. Breathe that way while trying to run. It's not fun.


Oh, the truth comes out! You have breathing issues and are trying to make other people suffer as you do. You can't do it, so you want to make sure nobody else can either. Glad we got to the bottom of that.

Someone inhaling smoke into their lungs does not affect you one bit so you can quit it with that little pity party you're throwing. Oh yeah, in case you didn't get the memo- YOUR PEOPLE ALREADY WON. We smokers can't smoke in restaurants, in bars, at concerts, in government buildings, on the bus, on the train, on airplanes, or just about any other place you are going to be. You won this battle long ago, and you're STILL COMPLAINING. It's amazing how it's never enough for you people. About the only place we can still smoke is outside, and lots of states require you to be X number of feet from any entrance or building to smoke. So I guess you're complaining that you might be walking around outside and someone might be smoking where you're walking. In that case, how about step out of the cloud of smoke if it bothers you so much!

That's the truth, you've already won. Smokers have been beaten down to conform to your stupid petty rules, and now you just keep kicking the corpse of an unpopular cause because you know you can. People aligned with your cause are bullies and are beating up on smokers far beyond what is reasonable.

But none of this was my initial point. My point is if we, as a society, decide that smoking is soooooo wrong and evil and bad for people then we need to stop taxing the crap out of it and just outlaw it completely. Make it illegal if it's such a horrible thing! Your little cronies aren't supporting that though, are they? No way, because that would mean turning down all that tax money you love to spend so much - not to mention you'd lose a group that is easy to demonize.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:18 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post 
Ether wrote:
manna_panna wrote:
It blows my mind that you draw such an assumption from my comments. I don't believe the state should control whether or not you smoke. That would be ridiculous and ineffective. However, I am a severe asthmatic and I detest having *my* social freedom restricted due to *your* optional habit.

Try breathing through a wool sock for an hour. Try it for a week. Breathe that way while trying to run. It's not fun.


Oh, the truth comes out! You have breathing issues and are trying to make other people suffer as you do. You can't do it, so you want to make sure nobody else can either. Glad we got to the bottom of that.

Someone inhaling smoke into their lungs does not affect you one bit so you can quit it with that little pity party you're throwing. Oh yeah, in case you didn't get the memo- YOUR PEOPLE ALREADY WON. We smokers can't smoke in restaurants, in bars, at concerts, in government buildings, on the bus, on the train, on airplanes, or just about any other place you are going to be. You won this battle long ago, and you're STILL COMPLAINING. It's amazing how it's never enough for you people. About the only place we can still smoke is outside, and lots of states require you to be X number of feet from any entrance or building to smoke. So I guess you're complaining that you might be walking around outside and someone might be smoking where you're walking. In that case, how about step out of the cloud of smoke if it bothers you so much!

That's the truth, you've already won. Smokers have been beaten down to conform to your stupid petty rules, and now you just keep kicking the corpse of an unpopular cause because you know you can. People aligned with your cause are bullies and are beating up on smokers far beyond what is reasonable.

But none of this was my initial point. My point is if we, as a society, decide that smoking is soooooo wrong and evil and bad for people then we need to stop taxing the crap out of it and just outlaw it completely. Make it illegal if it's such a horrible thing! Your little cronies aren't supporting that though, are they? No way, because that would mean turning down all that tax money you love to spend so much - not to mention you'd lose a group that is easy to demonize.

~Ether~


Sounds to me like you're the big whiner here and are trying to cover it up by accusing others of whining. Some of us are just incredulous that there are still those who want to put public health at risk for their own disgusting addiction.

Someone inhaling smoke doesn't affect others one bit? Are you really so ignorant and downright stupid? I mean, really. Use your brain. When public places are filled with smoke it affects the nonsmokers. When I walk out of work I breathe in the smoke you have to exhale after you inhale.

I tell ya, some people just aren't very good at this thinking thing.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:40 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post 
Quote:
You can't do it, so you want to make sure nobody else can either.


You seem to be missing the part where I say: I don't care if you smoke. Go outside, smoke two at a time. Get cancer and a tracheotomy and then smoke out of the throat hole. Go to town with that.
It's when the byproduct of that habit begins to affect my health is where I get touchy.

Yeah, I'm bitter. I wouldn't have a problem with someone inhaling smoke into their lungs as long as they <i>kept it there</i>. It's that whole exhalation-into-the-atmosphere part that's troublesome. I don't go and <i>try</i> to be around smokers. I don't go to the casino, I don't hang around doorways and if I have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get inside, I hold my breath.

Really, all this is aside from my original point. You're not the only one who can go on rambling, useless tirades.

I initially questioned your assertion that smoking should be respected as a derivative of ritual (barring anything from an "organized" religion, you don't like those, so they don't count) and tradition. Rituals that used the scent and taste of burnt matter to please the spirits and used the mind-altering effects of the smoke to raise consciousness. You would compare that to the 6 minutes a smoker takes to satisfy an addiction and poison their bloodstream. O, the slings and arrows you must suffer to maintain the freedom to slowly kill yourself anywhere you choose!

Let's think logically for a moment. If smoking were outlawed, do you honestly think that would change anything? I know it wouldn't. You put words in my mouth by claiming I would support a ridiculous law like that. I'm just fine with taxing the hell out of cigarettes. Pawlenty's going to have to balance the budget somehow.

If you're tired of being demonized as a smoker, don't be a smoker.

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:24 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 2036
Location: not on this site. contact me elsewhere.
Post 
Ether wrote:
alisgray wrote:
According to... the One True Christian Church? which one is your flavor?


None of them are my flavor, I reject organized religion. But communion isn't supposed to have yeast in it. Look it up and quit wasting my time with your uninformed and argumentative nonsense.

~Ether~


So funny! I'm rubber and you're glue, genius. Look it up yourself. I've TAKEN communion that was leavened bread. Maybe you're thinking of leavened bread and passover.

By all means don't let me "waste" YOUR time with "uninformed and argumentative nonsense." I wouldn't want to cut into you pointless and factless ranting, see above.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:56 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:12 pm
Posts: 4274
Location: pyramids of mars
Post 
LOL

_________________
Rockula! wrote:
Whooda thought that you could get supress a guy's urge kick someones ass by waving pussy in his face?


Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:27 pm
Profile YIM
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
devil wrote:
Sounds to me like you're the big whiner here and are trying to cover it up by accusing others of whining. Some of us are just incredulous that there are still those who want to put public health at risk for their own disgusting addiction.

Someone inhaling smoke doesn't affect others one bit? Are you really so ignorant and downright stupid? I mean, really. Use your brain. When public places are filled with smoke it affects the nonsmokers.



LOL. So silly.

I know this conversation may seem like an easy target for you because you get to argue the 'popular' side of the debate, but at least do it well if you're going to throw your two cents in. You are embarassing yourself with such garbage.

Public places are not 'filled with smoke' as you suggest. That's moronic to say. It's illegal to smoke in public buildings. If we're talking about OUTSIDE then that's equally moronic because you are OUTSIDE. The atmosphere is a big place, and you inhale much worse just from passing traffic. So in summary, cram it.

And to whomever said that uninformed nonsense about tobacco offerings putting the deer on to your scent- ugh. It's typically done AFTER you kill the deer. A deer can't smell anything after it is dead. But that's off-topic and certainly not the point.

And to get even further off-topic, I'll address the person who claims to have had communion made from bread with yeast. Guess what? You didn't have communion. Unless you go to one of those nutty churches that thinks they can use Nutter Butters and Kool Aid for communion... All I can say is look it up, and if you're unwilling to do so then you are just contributing to your own ignorance of the subject. Which is fine, BTW, just don't tell ME to look up something that doesn't exist. That is a weak and empty argument on your part.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:04 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
I'm just fine with taxing the hell out of cigarettes. Pawlenty's going to have to balance the budget somehow.

If you're tired of being demonized as a smoker, don't be a smoker.



You think Pawlenty is going to balance the budget by taxing smokers? Are you mental?!? And why this weird double-standard? Why not make marajuana legal and tax that crap out of it. Or take it a step further and make cocaine legal while you're at it- just tax it. You're saying it's ok to tax one thing and not another. Punish one group of people and not the other.

You don't seem like a stupid person, so I'm trying to understand how you are unable to grasp these very simple concepts of fairness. I mean, it's logic- it's not like I'm talking about some crazy abstract thing here. It's about being free to live your life as you want to, being treated fairly, and accepting that other people make different choices than you do. Is that really so hard to understand?

~E~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:14 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 2488
Post 
Wow! I've never seen this side of Ether!


Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:23 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 07, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3269
Post 
Smoke weeeed. It's cool.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:38 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post 
That was sarcasm. Of course I don't seriously believe Pawlenty would balance the budget with cigarette tax money. I don't even believe Pawlenty will ever balance the budget. In truth, taxing cigarettes doesn't bother me because again I state: Smoking is an optional habit. If you don't want to be taxed, don't buy the damn product.

The legalization of marijuana, cocaine or otherwise doesn't even factor into this discussion. They are (for the moment) illegal narcotics and so should not be considered in an argument about the pros and cons of cigarettes.
Or did we move away from that topic and are just parsing irrelevant topics just to be annoying?

I understand the desire to live free and be trusted to make one's own choices in life. But what I have said and said again is that I do not understand why people choose to form a habit around an unhealthy product that is *made* addictive with the exact purpose to ensure continued use. I see this as one choosing to be controlled. Choosing to give up their money and life to a product, to the company that makes that product. It's sad.

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 4:42 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
I understand the desire to live free and be trusted to make one's own choices in life. But what I have said and said again is that I do not understand why people choose to form a habit around an unhealthy product that is *made* addictive with the exact purpose to ensure continued use. I see this as one choosing to be controlled. Choosing to give up their money and life to a product, to the company that makes that product. It's sad.


Good, I'm glad you're not a total drone! I was beginning to worry...

Not everyone who smokes is addicted to smoking, so I have to correct you there. There are casual users of it, of course. The other part of the equation that your argument misses is that people can choose to quit just as they chose to start. It's up to the person. We all have minds and can make decisions for ourselves. It's not right to view people as 'helpless' to a product's power.

The only exception to this rule that I've found is Sour Patch Kids. They are by far the most dangerous substance I've encountered- and I've encountered a lot of substances. I am drawn in by their dorky packaging, and addicted hopelessly to the sour kick in the butt it offers. In fact, I will often binge eat Sour Patch Kids (SPK in street lingo) until my tongue is raw with pain and bleeding. The sweet center soothes slightly- just enough to keep you coming back for more. And then the super concentrated dose of sour powder at the bottom of the bag must also be consumed.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Last edited by Ether on Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:06 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:49 pm
Posts: 3157
Post 
Image

_________________
And over the ashes the stories are told
Of witches and werewolves and Oak Island gold


Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:22 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post 
Addressing the "it affects me personally" point
I have more problems breathing outside when there's a high pollution count than an entire evening spent in the upper floor of GZ on a good night
That's where all the smoke goes and I'm just fine
Any rabid non smoker should consider not driving a car
Your car affects my breathing much worse than a cig

A friendly bit of advice (if you have not considered it before)
Have you ever consumed local raw honey?
I use it in iced green tea and consume about a cup of honey within a week
I have not sneezed my nose raw since
My breathing is easier as well (and i still inhale a LOT of pollutants here in Dallas)
Even if you are on several meds, it is natural and doesn't interfere with other treatments
You may not have to consume as much as I do but I'm sure that just a tablespoon a day would be enough

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:45 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 7:47 pm
Posts: 701
Location: the rotted glory of minneapolis suburbia
Post 
I like honey. I may try this; do you know exactly how it works on the body?

_________________
Art is life. But life is not art.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:43 pm
Profile WWW

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:01 am
Posts: 17
Post 
Ether wrote:
And to get even further off-topic, I'll address the person who claims to have had communion made from bread with yeast. Guess what? You didn't have communion. Unless you go to one of those nutty churches that thinks they can use Nutter Butters and Kool Aid for communion... All I can say is look it up, and if you're unwilling to do so then you are just contributing to your own ignorance of the subject. Which is fine, BTW, just don't tell ME to look up something that doesn't exist. That is a weak and empty argument on your part.

~Ether~


The Eastern Orthodox Church and other denominations that use the Byzantine Rite rather than the Latin Rite have ALWAYS used leavened bread. It's called prosphora and is made of 4 ingredients: flour, yeast, water, and salt.

_________________
"I really like the butt, especially when they're handcuffed."


Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:33 pm
Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 2036
Location: not on this site. contact me elsewhere.
Post 
Ether wrote:
And to get even further off-topic, I'll address the person who claims to have had communion made from bread with yeast. Guess what? You didn't have communion. Unless you go to one of those nutty churches that thinks they can use Nutter Butters and Kool Aid for communion... All I can say is look it up, and if you're unwilling to do so then you are just contributing to your own ignorance of the subject. Which is fine, BTW, just don't tell ME to look up something that doesn't exist. That is a weak and empty argument on your part.
~Ether~


I don't know what you THINK you're talking about, seeing as how you "reject all organized religion." Apparently you are intransigently ignorant.* What you're TALKING about is the Eucharist, If you're able to read that article, you'll see that only the Baptist sect insists on unleavened bread.

Ironic that you want it to be true that all Christians worship in the same way, when you started out demanding that society offer more personal freedoms.

*that is, "willfully uninformed." also known as "stupid." I wouldn't want you to hurt yourself looking those up.


Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:42 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 5056
Post 
Ether wrote:
I know this conversation may seem like an easy target for you because you get to argue the 'popular' side of the debate, but at least do it well if you're going to throw your two cents in. You are embarassing yourself with such garbage.


Wow what a concise and damningly dismissive counterpoint. You must have been captain of the debate team in school. At least in debate you don't have to be concerned with how "embarrassing" is actually spelled.

Ether wrote:
Public places are not 'filled with smoke' as you suggest. That's moronic to say. It's illegal to smoke in public buildings. If we're talking about OUTSIDE then that's equally moronic because you are OUTSIDE. The atmosphere is a big place, and you inhale much worse just from passing traffic. So in summary, cram it.


I was obviously referring to pre-smoking ban when referencing public places filled with smoke. Unfortunately I guess I have to spell things out for you a little more clearly. I'll bear that in mind for future debates. And yeah, pollution of every kind is terrible and more should be done to cut down on if not completely eliminate it. But when people have to walk through the clouds of smoke you can't argue that they don't smell it, don't breathe it and aren't affected by it. That would be "moronic," if I may be so bold as to borrow from your eloquence.

Like I said, in my view if you want to smoke at home (whatever it is you choose to smoke) that should be your protected right. But while all the smokers whine and piss and moan about their "rights" being infringed upon the nonsmokers finally managed to win back their right to be out in public and be able to breathe freely without coming home smelling like an ashtray, air pollution excepted.


Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:07 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 3128
Location: The center of the universe
Post 
manna_panna wrote:
I like honey. I may try this; do you know exactly how it works on the body?


Not exactly
I just figured that if you are ingesting honey from bees in your area, then you are innoculating yourself with all of the pollen as well as the pollutants in the air
Since bee barf is concentrated, you get concentrated doses of the bad stuff
The funny thing is that I never had an allergic reaction to the honey itself even though I assume it has tons of allergins in it
The cover your ass clause states that I should ask you to consult your doctor but, unless you're diabetic, I can't see it hurting you

I have been told that heating it up decreases the effectiveness
Plus, you can use it to cut out sugar
Instead of chugging coke to satisfy my sweet drink addiction, I drink tons of green tea with honey

_________________
I may be an asshole, but I'm not a fucking asshole
R!


Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:00 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
alisgray wrote:
I don't know what you THINK you're talking about, seeing as how you "reject all organized religion." Apparently you are intransigently ignorant.* What you're TALKING about is the Eucharist, If you're able to read that article, you'll see that only the Baptist sect insists on unleavened bread.

Ironic that you want it to be true that all Christians worship in the same way, when you started out demanding that society offer more personal freedoms.


I don't want all Christians to worship the same way. In fact, I don't care if they worship ANY way. Makes absolutely zero difference to me what bread they want to eat as part of their silly and rather creepy superstitious rituals. If it were somehow up to me, I'd recommend switching over to little cookie with frosting and sprinkles- or maybe donuts. I like those things and I suspect religious people would rather eat something that tastes good when they are having their little ceremony to eat Jesus. But whatever, if they want to eat crappy bread then that's fine too.

But if you are going to perform this ancient ritual the way it was originally performed and meant to be performed, then unleavened bread is the only 'correct' way to eat the magic Jesus bread. If you think Baptists are the only ones, then you need to expand your little wikipedia search and try to become informed about this subject/tangent.

~Ether~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:01 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Posts: 1768
Location: Twin Cities
Post 
devil wrote:
Wow what a concise and damningly dismissive counterpoint. You must have been captain of the debate team in school. At least in debate you don't have to be concerned with how "embarrassing" is actually spelled.


The best response you can come up with is to nitpick a typo? Seriously? I mean it's great that you know how to spell and all, don't get me wrong. I think that's fantastic. Your arguments may get torn to shreds but at least they will be spelled correctly. Goid star for you!


~E~

_________________
regards,

~€ᵀᴴᴲᴿ~



_______________________________________________________
____________________
[color=#FFFF00]________
€₸╠╣≡Ɽ
commercial graphic artist, singer, songwriter, multi-instrumentalist


BACK ALLEY: https://www.facebook.com/backalleysocial
CRUSH COLLECTIVE: http://www.facebook.com/crushmydesign


Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:20 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:21 pm
Posts: 2036
Location: not on this site. contact me elsewhere.
Post 
Nonsense. It is simply not true that all bread in "ancient times" or even in Palestine in the first century AD was flatbread. You're making shit up. Why else would there be a tradition of unleavened bread for Passover?

In any case, I see that you didn't actually read that short and not particularly challenging article. Go chase yourself. I'm sure the rest of your opinions are just as carefully constructed as your research methods.


Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:25 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 12:50 pm
Posts: 1652
Location: Winona, MN
Post 
devil wrote:
I was obviously referring to pre-smoking ban when referencing public places filled with smoke. Unfortunately I guess I have to spell things out for you a little more clearly. I'll bear that in mind for future debates. And yeah, pollution of every kind is terrible and more should be done to cut down on if not completely eliminate it. But when people have to walk through the clouds of smoke you can't argue that they don't smell it, don't breathe it and aren't affected by it. That would be "moronic," if I may be so bold as to borrow from your eloquence.

Like I said, in my view if you want to smoke at home (whatever it is you choose to smoke) that should be your protected right. But while all the smokers whine and piss and moan about their "rights" being infringed upon the nonsmokers finally managed to win back their right to be out in public and be able to breathe freely without coming home smelling like an ashtray, air pollution excepted.


But on the other side of that, now bars, clubs, and venues just stink of sweaty people and alcohol, where before that was masked by the sweet aroma of burning tobacco. First Ave is the best example of that where, in the summer, it stinks worse than a rodeo clown's neck. Other benefits of smoking that have been now taken away is the ability to cover up the smell of dead hookers one may encounter, the chance to use embers as a convenient bar weapon, the remarkable coolness smoking imparts on the smoker, and a good way to moderate one's drinking (when you can't smoke in a bar, you drink more). As one of the 60+ million people helping to support the poor rural farmers of the American south, having something more than just the option to go outside would be nice.


Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:04 pm
Profile WWW
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 132 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.